Match activity

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Match activity

Post#1 » 12 Jul 2017, 19:44

I am just replaying after some weeks of pause.

I look at the new league and it feel strange to me that people are ok with that.

The match activity of GM is divided by 4, and now you can only match people of your league. I mean the diversity of opponent is really reduce, no? And it seems hard to find a match if you not play during the «good hour».

I just begin to replay, maybe the first feeling i have is not correct. I will say that the newt week after some days of matches.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#2 » 12 Jul 2017, 22:14

Yes the approach is changed. Queue, check later . I normally queue games until the same map is repeated twice.

Matches are way more intense and meaningful.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Arcueid
Hello World
Hello World
Posts: 4

Re: Match activity

Post#3 » 14 Jul 2017, 07:11

Hi, I have to say, i have a similar feeling with TheKid.
Playing also in GM, I have match queued all the day long and at the end of the day I meet 8-10 different opponents.
The situation don't lead to a global improvement of our AI, but to an very specific adaptation to those 8-10 opponents, which most of the time will be counter productive against peoples in others league.
System in place today would be good if 5-10 time more active players were in the game and per league, but with the current number, I hope another solution will be implemented.

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Re: Match activity

Post#4 » 14 Jul 2017, 09:59

You know that your AI on set your priorities is annoying (abyssal copied it)... but if i put a counter of it, i will lose against other people...

And sorry pier but in master match are not more intense or meaningful as before... maybe it is not the same in GM.

Also when you can do only 3 match without waiting and then dont find match quickly, it is not easy to improve your AI (generally i lost the idea i got the day before so i try finish to add «complete and valid» version as soon as possible.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#5 » 14 Jul 2017, 14:09

TheKidPunisher wrote:You know that your AI on set your priorities is annoying (abyssal copied it)... but if i put a counter of it, i will lose against other people...

And sorry pier but in master match are not more intense or meaningful as before... maybe it is not the same in GM.

Also when you can do only 3 match without waiting and then dont find match quickly, it is not easy to improve your AI (generally i lost the idea i got the day before so i try finish to add «complete and valid» version as soon as possible.


For the syp of Arcueid.
- put a most priority action (I call it desperate push) that identifies some situation and pushes like there is no tomorrow.

For the matches.
- if you do (like I did): play, analyse, improve. I totally agree. But with small leagues (the problem is the amount of players active) the approach should change. I do this:
- deploy matches until I get two equal maps in the pending list (sometimes it happens immediately, sometimes doesn't)
- leave it for the day, debug the next day, then deploy.

In short, instead of doing this in hours, now you do it in days.

Actually this was the idea of Castlevania, to make "larger" score gaps per league. For me was different, I wanted a top20 league, position based and activity based (there would be always 20 guys).

I don't think the actual situation is bad, just it is slow and one has to slow down. Since gladiabots is a "thinking game", it is ok.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
Ritter Runkel
Neural Network
Neural Network
Posts: 498

Re: Match activity

Post#6 » 14 Jul 2017, 19:39

At the beginning I felt uncomfortable with this small leagues. For me it worked best to spam many matches, see a failure in 10% of the matches.

But after some days I had to reverse my first feeling. At GM matches are so intense that I change something after every two to four matches. Normally I don't spam more then three matches because I know that I will change something after I watched on our two of them.

Without the new concept I would rarely meet miojo or LuBeNo and that would be a pitty.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#7 » 14 Jul 2017, 23:25

Indeed.balanced matches are way more satisfying
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
0x1de
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 156

Re: Match activity

Post#8 » 15 Jul 2017, 01:51

Both master and GM have about 20 players. It can be slow. Mind you, the top guys can be absolutely devastating.
How about the bottom half/quarter of GM can play top half/quarter of M league?

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#9 » 15 Jul 2017, 09:05

I think the interleague matches were all ok (those with 200 points of difference). What was making things ugly were all those players losing only 1 point at time in a league.
Last edited by pier4r on 15 Jul 2017, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
LuBeNo
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 532

Re: Match activity

Post#10 » 15 Jul 2017, 12:42

pier4r wrote:I think the interleague matches where all ok (those with 200 points of difference). What was making things ugly were all those players losing only 1 point at time in a league.

I agree, interleague is not a problem. There should only be only a x points difference barrier.
Image
My algorithm of life: if(self.tired) sleep(); else if(self.hungry) eat(); else follow(Jesus);

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#11 » 18 Jul 2017, 21:31

Interesting though that without interleagues and "compact leagues" (so avoiding too many ineffective -1) the leagues keeps being "serious" and do not grow too much 8the top ones).

If interleague would be enabled, while good, would allow a lot of players almost demoted to survive picking from the lower league players. I start to think that having the leagues set like now, so hard for the ones at the bottom of the league, is not that bad. Or the inteleague matches should be way more strict, instead of +/- 200 points should be like +/- 100 points or less, so actually the challenge is balanced, without allowing one side to be farmed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Re: Match activity

Post#12 » 26 Jul 2017, 20:02

Well it is not like i dont want to fight arcueid anymore but sometimes i would like to fight other AI to see how mine reacts... (i mean more than 4 opponents would be great)

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Match activity

Post#13 » 26 Jul 2017, 21:58

I completely understand but I guess the topic is over since now we have unranked match, unlimited with the elo, private matches and tournaments.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Arcueid_57
Script
Script
Posts: 41

Re: Match activity

Post#14 » 27 Jul 2017, 08:11

pier4r wrote:I completely understand but I guess the topic is over since now we have unranked match, unlimited with the elo, private matches and tournaments.


I hope it's not over: the ELO remain the core challenge in this game and in the current situation , at least in Master League, it become very frustrating.
Only 6 different opponents per day, which mean the changes we all are doing are extremely targeted against the 6 guys on the League.

It's all about micromanagement of AI.
To reach the 1800 and access to GM, we don't need to be map specific but mostly player specific.
I like a lot the arrival of Tournaments but due to the Ranked match situation, it's not my favorite period in this game.

@TheKidPunisher: Bravo! It's always a pleasure to fight you, even for a loss, your AI with Assault are impressive.

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Re: Match activity

Post#15 » 27 Jul 2017, 13:40

Arcueid_57 wrote:@TheKidPunisher: Bravo! It's always a pleasure to fight you, even for a loss, your AI with Assault are impressive.


Thanks. I still didnt find a solution for your SYP rush strat.

Also i agree with you that in master league no more hype to play ranked. But atleast tournament will add fun...

TalonZa
Script
Script
Posts: 24

Re: Match activity

Post#16 » 27 Jul 2017, 16:50

I very much agree with you guys. In fact, I'm not convinced that the ELO ranking system is the best solution for this game.
As you guys have noted, you can only find few games on Ranked. As we want to get as many games played as possible to give the greatest overview of success rate. To achieve this, I queue of 10 games. But it's crazy that I play the same person 3 times on the same map and win/loose in the exact same way. Then I loose like 50 ELO rank because of something that was effectively a replay.

The ranking system definitely needs some work. Some suggestions:
- Prevent the same player on the same map more than once per 12 hours.
- Get rid of league boundaries and work on rank differences (can keep the ranking labels)

The other way is a complete rework/tranformation of the system. Stop the challenge request process. Have users commit their bots to a live database. The server then should perform the matches automatically. Matching you up against all the players in your range, per map and per orientation on map. You should then be ranked according to your overall success. Each time you commit a change, it should run the matches. Let users go through and review any match they want too. Also give some more condition statements for the maps (if map is MindGames).

Arcueid_57
Script
Script
Posts: 41

Re: Match activity

Post#17 » 27 Jul 2017, 18:02

Hi Talonza,
So now with you, TheKidPunisher and me, half of the Master League actives players are requesting a change.

Anyway, this is an alpha version of the game and finding the right pairing system is probably one of the aims.

I love the idea of AIs database with automatic pairing but it's maybe a huge change to program.

I think a simple change can improve the situation: allow pairing within the league and all ELO +/- 100pts from your current score. That will increase the number of potential opponent and ease the players exchange between M and GM league.

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Re: Match activity

Post#18 » 27 Jul 2017, 18:07

The problem will be that top player will complain about winning match for few points and losing for a lot of points.

Ah... it is hard/impossible to satisfy everyone...

TheKidPunisher
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 565

Re: Match activity

Post#19 » 27 Jul 2017, 18:12

Sry for double post.

Here i see mainly people from M and GM.

Can we have the point of view of other league players (avaren,revenge and trinityofkirby are in diamond, it is the same for you?,and hartag and GIMRIC in platinum?...)

Arcueid_57
Script
Script
Posts: 41

Re: Match activity

Post#20 » 27 Jul 2017, 18:46

TheKidPunisher wrote:The problem will be that top player will complain about winning match for few points and losing for a lot of points.

Ah... it is hard/impossible to satisfy everyone...



With acces to players -/+100 pts that mean at 1755 I can match someone 1855. It's 8 news potentiel opponent and not for a lot or few points.

And today, GM players at 1855 can already match with players in GM with a score of 1755...but being exactly at the same score (1755) in M league I cannot.

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSN [Bot] and 1 guest