The last training : team composition ?

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Tchey
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The last training : team composition ?

Post#1 » 06 Jul 2017, 16:23

Hello,

New to the game, i wonder what i should do for the last training mission. It seems with any class choice, i lose the game. I tried with 4 assaults, only 1 sniper, only 1 shotgun, only 1 MG, i tried to avoid only 1 class (so 2 Assaults, 1 sniper, 1 MG for example), i tried to roll the position "sniper, mg, assault, shotgun", or "mg, assault, shotgun, sniper", etc, and i always lose.

Am i suppose to do something else than select classes ? It seems i cannot do anything else than that.

Thanks
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Ein Stein
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#2 » 06 Jul 2017, 16:38

I haven't tried it yet, but it may be because its AI is not good at all. I'd suggest that you jump into Practice Mode and code up your own AIs.

I believe you have known the differences about the four classes, so make good use of their strengths when you code. :)
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LuBeNo
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#3 » 06 Jul 2017, 16:52

You may program the AI of the last level. IIRC I only beat it by doing so. IMO it should be easier.
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Kanishka
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#4 » 06 Jul 2017, 16:59

Tchey wrote:Hello,

New to the game, i wonder what i should do for the last training mission. It seems with any class choice, i lose the game. I tried with 4 assaults, only 1 sniper, only 1 shotgun, only 1 MG, i tried to avoid only 1 class (so 2 Assaults, 1 sniper, 1 MG for example), i tried to roll the position "sniper, mg, assault, shotgun", or "mg, assault, shotgun, sniper", etc, and i always lose.

Am i suppose to do something else than select classes ? It seems i cannot do anything else than that.

Thanks


Use 1 MG as the 2nd Bot. Others Assault.
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#5 » 06 Jul 2017, 17:16

LuBeNo wrote:You may program the AI of the last level. IIRC I only beat it by doing so. IMO it should be easier.

I would rather program the AI in the regular editor so as to save it for other levels.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

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Tchey
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#6 » 06 Jul 2017, 17:33

Kanishka wrote:
Use 1 MG as the 2nd Bot. Others Assault.


With the given IA, it's not working, 2 reds left. I think i've tried all possible compositions, without altering the IA, so i guess i must tune it manually.

Tooltip should say so, or mission should be easier, at this point of the learning curve. Reading the mission i only understand i should try the different classes only to observe and win, not to actually have to think.

Not a big deal, but it feels very different than all the previous training missions.

I've started the Solo now, with hand made IA. Quite an awesome game, with lots of room for learning, and i thing suitable for noobs as me (not a programmer, not a mathematician, nor nothing alike) as well as advanced players.

It reminds me a lot of Frozen Synapse in the mood, which i love.
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mcompany
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#7 » 06 Jul 2017, 18:19

It is (imo) a pretty bad training mission, but I believe it is possible to beat with just a sniper and a machine gun in the middle without editing the AI. That said, the AI that you are given is awful and (last I checked, which wasn't the latest version) you can't write any flee nodes, meaning that the AI probably wouldn't get any better

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LuBeNo
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#8 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:22

Tchey wrote:Tooltip should say so, or mission should be easier, at this point of the learning curve. Reading the mission i only understand i should try the different classes only to observe and win, not to actually have to think.

I agree. This might be an bug. GFX47 could you have a look at it?
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GFX47
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#9 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:23

mcompany wrote:it is possible to beat with just a sniper and a machine gun in the middle without editing the AI

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LuBeNo
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#10 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:31

GFX47 wrote:
mcompany wrote:it is possible to beat with just a sniper and a machine gun in the middle without editing the AI

Works. Please consider changes. I remember being frustrated by this level too. Perhaps a common wrong approach is using sniper in the back.
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Tchey
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#11 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:38

mcompany wrote: it is possible to beat with just a sniper and a machine gun in the middle without editing the AI.


Ah yes, tried now and worked, at least. I guess i didn't tny all compositions AND positions, then.

The mission should really not be about "blindly try everything until you find the key by luck"... I had to actually think for all the previous ones... At least, it's what i strongly felt during all my failed attempts with this ultimate tutorial mission.
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harthag
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#12 » 06 Jul 2017, 22:42

Tchey wrote:
mcompany wrote: it is possible to beat with just a sniper and a machine gun in the middle without editing the AI.


Ah yes, tried now and worked, at least. I guess i didn't tny all compositions AND positions, then.

Maybe "team composition" and "bot class placement" should be 2 separate trainings ... ?

TheKidPunisher
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Re: The last training : team composition ?

Post#13 » 07 Jul 2017, 20:29

Tchey wrote:It reminds me a lot of Frozen Synapse in the mood, which i love.


This game was fun too.

(I was frustrated cause i lost against a top player because they dont explain that ruke in pvp was different from campaign mode)

In gladiabots there is not this type of mistake.

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