Health and Shield bar explanation, please

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drartimus
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Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#1 » 17 Feb 2017, 07:49

I couldn't find a topic that could explain this. The health and shield statuses have little breaks in them, but they differ between classes. Why does assault have 3 bars for shield and 5 bars for health? Why does shotgun have 5 and 3? Machine gun has 5 and 7? I can't remember, I think sniper is 3 and 3? I'm sure it's relative to the classes, but what does each bar mean?

Maybe what else is needed is how much does each shot take away? I take it the shots count the same, they just hit more often the closer the target is.

This might fall into more of a suggestion category, but what would be really helpful is if the health and shield statuses were marked at the quarters (4 bars), since that's how the AI breaks them down. If the classes have differing total shield and health "points," maybe the health and shield status should be differing lengths? It would visually demonstrate the strengths of the differing classes.

Thanks
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pier4r
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#2 » 17 Feb 2017, 14:04

1 bar = 1000 points.

wiki and forum search: bot stats: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17

Anyway having bars that are break down in 25% bars is also a nice idea. Otherwise it is more visual estimation.
Last edited by pier4r on 19 Feb 2017, 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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GFX47
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#3 » 19 Feb 2017, 11:22

Yes, the more bars, the more health/shield.
I'd like to add 25/50/75% markers but I didn't find a way to make it clear enough without cluttering the UI too much yet.

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drartimus
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#4 » 20 Feb 2017, 08:09

GFX47 wrote:Yes, the more bars, the more health/shield.
I'd like to add 25/50/75% markers but I didn't find a way to make it clear enough without cluttering the UI too much yet.


For your review, and just a suggestion. I attempted to 'shop an idea, using quarter marks, but showing the varying heath and shield amounts with thicker/thinner bars. Left is an unmodified screen grab, right is my edit. My attempt is to maintain some sort of scale showing the differing health and shield amounts, but use about the same amount of space, and clearly show the quarter marks.

Image

At this particular zoom, shotgun has a shield bar height of 10 pixels (= 2 x 5 bars) and health bar height of 6 pixels (= 2 x 3 bars). Assault is basically same as shotgun but with health and shield bars swapped. Sniper has both shield and heath bar heights of 6 pixels each (= 2 x 3 bars). Machine-gun has shield bar height of 10 pixels (= 2 x 5 bars), and health bar height of 14 pixels (= 2 x 7 bars).
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#5 » 20 Feb 2017, 08:26

drartimus wrote:
GFX47 wrote:Yes, the more bars, the more health/shield.
I'd like to add 25/50/75% markers but I didn't find a way to make it clear enough without cluttering the UI too much yet.


For your review, and just a suggestion. I attempted to 'shop an idea, using quarter marks, but showing the varying heath and shield amounts with thicker/thinner bars. Left is an unmodified screen grab, right is my edit. My attempt is to maintain some sort of scale showing the differing health and shield amounts, but use about the same amount of space, and clearly show the quarter marks.

Image

At this particular zoom, shotgun has a shield bar height of 10 pixels (= 2 x 5 bars) and health bar height of 6 pixels (= 2 x 3 bars). Assault is basically same as shotgun but with health and shield bars swapped. Sniper has both shield and heath bar heights of 6 pixels each (= 2 x 3 bars). Machine-gun has shield bar height of 10 pixels (= 2 x 5 bars), and health bar height of 14 pixels (= 2 x 7 bars).


Nice!
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GFX47
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#6 » 20 Feb 2017, 09:10

Very nice idea! Never thought about using height actually.
Maybe a bit too subtle though?
What do you guys think?

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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#7 » 20 Feb 2017, 11:34

Would be hard to understand at a glance... That's the only problem. 99% of all players won't count the number of pixels.
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#8 » 20 Feb 2017, 11:44

I like the Assault version with the Shield bar thinner, but dividing everything in slots of 25% would make it more difficult to analyse a match.

For example, today one shot of a Sniper takes 2 parts of any bars. If this changes, one shot would take more 2 parts of the Assault shield and less than 2 parts of the Shotgun shield. Furthermore, 1 shot would take more than 2 parts of the Assault shield, but less than 2 parts of its health. Knowing the absolute values makes it easier to verify if you're fleeing or attacking a bot at the right time.

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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#9 » 20 Feb 2017, 14:32

GFX47 wrote:Very nice idea! Never thought about using height actually.
Maybe a bit too subtle though?
What do you guys think?


Well to make it even easier (or, well, dunno, it depends on the modeling abilities of the tools), since either with quarters or bars it is not that for me it is easy to spot precisely the condition when those are on the border, could you just add at the end of the bar the equivalent shield and health symbol?
Also because counting pixels is not exactly easy.

Like

Code: Select all

Sniper shield:
+++ +++ +++ :shield symbol 75-100%:

Sniper shield:
+++ ++- --- :shield symbol 50-75%:



ans so on. Similar to the symbol that is showing the reload, it has always to face the player more or less.
In this way there will be less ambiguity because bars are easy to catch, visually, and the symbols too. Moreover if those are as tiny as the reload symbol, there will be not so much clutter but those would be an efficient way to debug a situation.
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drartimus
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#10 » 20 Feb 2017, 17:21

^^^^^
This idea, I like a lot. Maybe leave the horizontal bars they way they are, but when selecting an individual bot, the bars are replaced with the health and shield symbols that show the stacked quarter bars. That could really help when debugging an AI.

On the outside chance, one thing to consider might be that more horizontal bars may be needed if you do any kind of extras that get depleted when used, like speed enhancement, cloak (invisible but can't fire for a short time), radar jammer (makes enemy shots less accurate), stealth (half as effective as cloak, but can still fire)...
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#11 » 21 Feb 2017, 06:32

I like the current setup, personally. But if changes are being considered, how about length instead of height?

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GFX47
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#12 » 21 Feb 2017, 08:59

harthag wrote:I like the current setup, personally. But if changes are being considered, how about length instead of height?


That's what I experimented with in my first iteration. I remember it didn't look that good between the very wide bars of the machine gun and the tight ones of the sniper.

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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#13 » 21 Feb 2017, 17:40

I'm not really surprised. So I'm back to liking the current setup. (if it aint broke, don't fix it) ;)

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drartimus
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#14 » 21 Feb 2017, 21:11

If they weren't bars for shield and health, but ticks like ticks on a ruler, you could have ticks on the top of the bar indicate the existing sheild/heath amounts and have ticks on the bottom indicate quarters. The status bars would looks like English/metric rulers. ;) The challenge again is not being too subtle. I could make a stab at that mockup if anyone is interested.
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#15 » 21 Feb 2017, 21:48

Also tried this option but when zooming out, the rulers disappear.
You can't display thin things with world space UI.
And using screen space UI (not scaling when zooming) makes it unusable when 2 units are too close or when zooming out.

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LuBeNo
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#16 » 22 Mar 2017, 14:05

drartimus wrote:^^^^^
This idea, I like a lot. Maybe leave the horizontal bars they way they are, but when selecting an individual bot, the bars are replaced with the health and shield symbols that show the stacked quarter bars. That could really help when debugging an AI.

I like the idea of showing the health and shield information (75-100% symbol) only if the current bot is selected. It would be nice when debugging. Perhaps it could be shown in one of the corners of the screen.
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#17 » 22 Mar 2017, 14:25

I just realized that a ugly work around would be creating a subtree "dubugger" for every main AI.

The subtree would have only conditions and no actions, but still those could clarify the current situation since the will get green or red.

A branch with shields, one with health, one with enemy distance from various enemies and so on. Plus conditions to check the health status of the enemies.

But this would take way more time to be checked, still I realized it only now :|

I may implement it, maybe.
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LuBeNo
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#18 » 22 Mar 2017, 17:37

I also thought about a debugger subtree. I would prefer a buildin solution along with a better debugger:
LuBeNo wrote:I would like a step by step debugger, perhaps also capable to go back in time.

*Dreaming.*
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#19 » 22 Mar 2017, 17:49

I think "*dreaming* fits the bill. We have to be creative given the amount of effort that GFX can produce, he is not superman yet.
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Re: Health and Shield bar explanation, please

Post#20 » 22 Mar 2017, 17:59

pier4r wrote:... yet.

8-)

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