TeamTags and Team Leader

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Avaren
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TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#1 » 22 Dec 2016, 00:15

I'm trying to get my AI to dynamically select a Team leader (so that if the last one dies they'll pick a new one), so that one bot will Tag things with the TeamTags.

So far I've come up with solutions that either have 2 bots get marked, or that may result in no-one being marked.

Can anyone think of a better way to solve this problem?

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HBomb
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#2 » 22 Dec 2016, 02:54

Similar to the second one, but one does it to oneself.

Say we do classes from long to short range...
1. If no team leader and no ally sniper, tag me as leader if I'm sniper.
2. If no team leader and no ally machine gun or sniper, tag me as leader if I'm machine gun.
3. ....assault
4. ....shotgun

Unfortunately there is no 100 percent way to avoid a race condition unless you perform an in game test like "first one to a home base is the leader!" or "first duplicate leader to take damage loses its leadership"

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Avaren
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#3 » 22 Dec 2016, 03:22

I'd have it go Shotgun, Assault, Machine, then Sniper.

In your case, If you only had Assaults then none would become team leader...

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HBomb
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#4 » 22 Dec 2016, 03:29

Fair point. Then how about this:

1. If no team leader, tag me as leader if I'm shotgun.
2 If no team leader and no shotgun, tag me as leader if I'm assault.
3. ....machine gun
4. ....sniper
5. If I'm team leader, remove team leader from ally with not full Shields.

Overcompensate, then reduce. You will have to acknowledge that multiple leaders may exist at the start of the game. However, this routine will refill if the last two leaders get shot at once.
EDIT: switched 5. to "demote ally" because if someone's getting shot at we don't want them hanging around to demote themselves)

In fact, I'd even add "if full shields" to self promotion so someone doesn't take two ticks to celebrate their promotion mid fight

EDIT2: ignore other edit.
Use "exclusive tagteamX". I just tested it and only a single ally will get tagged. Easy. Good job GFX.

ConsciouS-0nE
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#5 » 23 Dec 2016, 13:49

Whats a team leader lol.(i upgraded to 6.1.2, and i dunno what im doing, ill spend some time for trial and error soon but quite busy.)
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#6 » 23 Dec 2016, 14:38

The bot which tags stuff (enemies, maybe resources and bases) - the bot which is giving the orders, setting the priority targets, etc.

ConsciouS-0nE
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#7 » 23 Dec 2016, 15:51

So any individual bot cannot set exclusive/team tags,only one that is assigned to be the alpha/commander/leader.
, if i set two bots thatll command to team tag different or the same target what would happen?

But individual bots can set their own tags on bot but cannot be seen by team members right? (Bot tags).
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

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HBomb
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#8 » 23 Dec 2016, 16:19

ConsciouS-0nE wrote:So any individual bot cannot set exclusive/team tags,only one that is assigned to be the alpha/commander/leader.
, if i set two bots thatll command to team tag different or the same target what would happen?

But individual bots can set their own tags on bot but cannot be seen by team members right? (Bot tags).


The team leader position is a construction of Avaren. Buts it's a fine idea and I admit I nicked it a but for my own team tags.

"BotTags" can only be seen by that bot.
"TeamTags" are shared amongst all team members.
"ExclusiveTag" action removes any other instance of the respective tag.

So if two captains get assigned and both tag something with A, there may be two As. If they both ExclusiveTag, there will be only one but there's no guarantee which, assuming that tag at the same time.

ConsciouS-0nE
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#9 » 23 Dec 2016, 18:14

Thanks alot mister.
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

AIFrame
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#10 » 02 Jan 2017, 10:03

From my expirience dropping bot for tagging stuff - is a great waste of time. Even tagging self or specific enemy with bottags is an iteration which could be used for targetting enemy or approaching it. So do target switching - this along may become a result of a failure, while your enemy "just brainlessly shooting you".

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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#11 » 02 Jan 2017, 12:52

I have failed to avoid losing some critical ticks without a leader AI, every bot tagged an enemy instead of only one. My leader AIs work like this: the leader exclusive teamtags itself, if something has to be teamtagged it teamtags that something and if it has nothing better to do it goes into a subtree. If a bot isn't the leader it goes into that same subtree. If the leader dies another bot becomes the leader. This isn't really useful for resource gathering bots. But you were talking about bottags, with those you have to be more careful not to do less useful stuff. Leaders should only use bottags to help themselves teamtag stuff, making a leader which only uses bottags doesn't really make sense.
TLDR: A leader bot can be useful and tagging isn't always better than just shooting.

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HBomb
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#12 » 02 Jan 2017, 14:30

AIFrame wrote:From my expirience dropping bot for tagging stuff - is a great waste of time. Even tagging self or specific enemy with bottags is an iteration which could be used for targetting enemy or approaching it. So do target switching - this along may become a result of a failure, while your enemy "just brainlessly shooting you".


Thinking is time consuming. Unloading map-wide decisions on to a single bot lets all but one only worry about more pressing matters.
Here's what my teameader does, which I do not want every bot to spend time thinking about:
1. Decide what map we're on and which strategy to employ. (Not used on rush maps such as mind games) Also changes this strategy according to how the battlefield goes.
2. Counts ball-handlers on both teams to see if the team needs to up the pressure due to having more available bots.
3. Decides if an ally needs a bodyguard.
4. If stretagy requires, puts markers on certain balls encouraging the team to split up and grab separate ones.

All of these take a reasonable number of ticks and it would be annoying if everyone did it. So a team leader position is useful!

And I owe this lot to Avaren. :)

pier4r
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#13 » 02 Jan 2017, 17:32

Woah what an advanced tactic. Mine is way more simpler.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Dicaprio
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#14 » 06 Jan 2017, 07:33

I want to ask how do you write the ai to count things? :?:

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#15 » 07 Jan 2017, 00:37

Counting is a little bit complicated now. You can mark everything with a temporary tag.

Then remove closest temporary tag, tag this one with one.
Then remove closest temporary tag, tag this one with two.
...


HBomb wrote:Thinking is time consuming

So right ... and it is worth. I use tagging allot for changing strategies during the game. From what I've seen until now there are very few situations where this extra amount of time used for tagging Ressources, Teammates, Enemys or Tag to save a state is not worth doing it. I only try to avoid it in the first seconds of Circle, Mind and Spiral. Imho all other maps are made to tag like a king!

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HBomb
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Re: TeamTags and Team Leader

Post#16 » 07 Jan 2017, 02:33

Dicaprio wrote:I want to ask how do you write the ai to count things? :?:


While I would love the chance to show off, it's probably not worth it until counting becomes an actual filter in Alpha 7. I'm considering removing it at the moment because it can take 2-5 cycles to count for 1 to 3+ (that's over a second of pure thinking!). Wait until Alpha 7. Trust.

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