We need more players.

TheKidPunisher
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Re: We need more players.

Post#61 » 27 Sep 2017, 20:23

GFX47 wrote: one of my goals with Gladiabots is to make non programmers discover the unlimited creativity programming offers.


The problem is that you need to simplify as much as possible to get them play the game but by doing that you limit the "unlimited" possibilities...

Hard time to think about how much the game need to be simplified (risk to lost too guys who dont want that much facilities)

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GFX47
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Re: We need more players.

Post#62 » 27 Sep 2017, 20:24

Tutorials are their for beginners and introduce the different mechanics progressively.

Chilio
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Re: We need more players.

Post#63 » 27 Sep 2017, 20:36

pier4r wrote:
Chilio wrote:
So go back to unlocking different things one by one? (Based on xp or so, so you don't lose stuff you already had, but that also requires more leagues for people that did not unlock things. (you don't want to lose because you didn't unlock X yet...))

Difficult...

No, simply accept that many people when playing don't want to think. So the actual gladiabots will always have few players.


Well, not exactly: I think there are people who would learn this better step by step, while not exactly being the type for brainless games.

(Have you ever heeard of EU4? And the number of people who didn't get to play it because of the sheer information overload? I think gladiabots is doing way better by having a good tutorial and learning people the steps, but still, being let lose with all the options can be overwhelming.)

Jeffrey Harpen
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Re: We need more players.

Post#64 » 27 Sep 2017, 21:39

Why not just show people how to make an AI from scratch using some conditions, actions, filters, sub-AIs and then let people experiment for their own? Actually all what they have to know is how to make a working AI. Teaching them some basic tactics seems to be not necessary and makes the tutorial a bit longish.

Alternatively we (the community) can make some videos or just forum threads explaining more complicated things... Can we? ;)

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GFX47
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Re: We need more players.

Post#65 » 27 Sep 2017, 22:07

Maybe a single tutorial video could be a good alternative solution indeed.

TheKidPunisher
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Re: We need more players.

Post#66 » 27 Sep 2017, 23:12

Or read some thread on the forum. Pew make a good one if i remember well. (And some other in "strategies"

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Re: We need more players.

Post#67 » 28 Sep 2017, 04:56

I have a possible suggestion. When going through the tutorials the new user gets to see pieces of ai that can do certain things, why not let all of those pieces be saved into the ai file for them to be able to call?! Putting those pieces together or calling those sub ai's could generate a good starting point if used the right way, similar to Simple Bot by Pew.

This might help the learning curve even more and possibly hook those that want the more immediate gratification of play.

pier4r
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Re: We need more players.

Post#68 » 28 Sep 2017, 12:18

When I do it on reddit /r/learnprogramming I get back "lol".

(this was in reply to "suggest the game on strategy/programming forums")
Last edited by pier4r on 28 Sep 2017, 12:21, edited 1 time in total.
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pier4r
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Re: We need more players.

Post#69 » 28 Sep 2017, 12:20

Chilio wrote:
(Have you ever heeard of EU4? And the number of people who didn't get to play it because of the sheer information overload? I think gladiabots is doing way better by having a good tutorial and learning people the steps, but still, being let lose with all the options can be overwhelming.)

Paradox games, best games.

Although EU4 and HOI4 are getting simler than before
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Kanishka
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Re: We need more players.

Post#70 » 28 Sep 2017, 13:20

The bitter fact is that people don't want to think. Most people think when they work and play when they don't. They don't quite piece together the two words
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Kanishka
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Re: We need more players.

Post#71 » 28 Sep 2017, 13:33

My idea (compilation of old requests of mine):

Leagues based on XP; inter-league strictly prohibited.

(New addition to the idea): player unlocks larger AI Grid (outside placement prohibited), more AI storage, larger AI node limit, larger filter limit on Nodes, more Sub-AI in Sub-AI in... depth, etc. AI features with XP, and by passing Tests.
Tests would assign a specific task and will examine the player's understanding of the game. More efficient, faster, AIs will get a higher score, which will award more XP (way more than a single victory), thus progressing towards the next level with new unlocks.

TL;DR: XP Levels will be made into leagues. Leagues unlock features, Tasks/Quests give lots of XP

This should imo ease out the learning curve, effectively removing the sudden surge of info. If a player thinks it's too easy, they'll do Tasks and quickly get the new expansions.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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pier4r
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Re: We need more players.

Post#72 » 28 Sep 2017, 16:13

Kanishka wrote:The bitter fact is that people don't want to think. Most people think when they work and play when they don't. They don't quite piece together the two words


It is partially understandable. In the words of my brother "if I have to think so much, I study". And it is not much to blame there.

I partially blame those that, even after a day of work/school, just shut down their brain always (and not only some days). It is the same reason we get shitty politicians.
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LuBeNo
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Re: We need more players.

Post#73 » 29 Sep 2017, 18:20

LuBeNo wrote:
pier4r wrote:Another feedback. If the player does not log in for long time, has a lot of announcements in queue that are annoying. Like Alpha 10.1, Alpha 10.2, I need you, Alpha 10.3 etc..

Support.
There should be "message 3 of 6" and "skip all".

Perhaps it should also be possible to have access to old messages like in "tip of the day" of other programs. Not all old messages could/should be used for this category. Old announcements for new version are not interesting any more.
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ai drone
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Re: We need more players.

Post#74 » 07 Oct 2017, 01:33

Kanishka wrote:The bitter fact is that people don't want to think. Most people think when they work and play when they don't. They don't quite piece together the two words


I for one am not a programmer, I do like challenging games. But, most of the suggestions to improve this game have come from the top players that ARE programmers asking for a whole lot more options in the visual language supplied by GFX for this game. The MORE you add to the language, the harder it is for an average person that is NOT a programmer to get the hang of to be able to enjoy the game. I think I got into the game back in version 4 or 5, and at the time the language supplied was very simple and limited... easy to learn and get the hang of. At that time it was a lot more fun for me as I could play with almost all the options to create the ai and actually compete.

Now with ALL the additions, it has become more of a FULL programming language that has become more complex... Yes there are filters for almost everything that has been requested which makes the programming MUCH easier for a programmer, just not for the average gamer that wants a challenging game. Chess is a challenging game that has limited movement options (language) so the player has to use tactics and strategy to use the combination of pieces (bots) and moves (language) to win. Imagine adding additional moves and rules into chess to increase options... all of a sudden the game would become so complex no one would want to learn.

This is why I now don't play as much. I love the graphics, love the premise of the game, appreciate the additions of the filters, but without a manual to show and explain the options it takes me weeks to figure some of it out, just in time for another update with even more added that a person has to dig through to learn.

I paid for both android and pc, and I am glad I did, I will continue to plug away at the language as I continue to give up points more often than not.

TheKidPunisher
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Re: We need more players.

Post#75 » 07 Oct 2017, 08:30

So for example, you prefer to not have the simplification of counting enemies, you think that no programmer will really succeed to count ennemies easily with basic option?

I agree that GFX add more feature but as he wants to make this game for no programmer, all feature added by him are to respect this way.

I had like too when we have not a lot of option cause we had too have a lot of reflexion to have to create complex feature that now are simplified to create with all the new added features

pier4r
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Re: We need more players.

Post#76 » 07 Oct 2017, 08:47

ai drone wrote:This is why I now don't play as much. I love the graphics, love the premise of the game, appreciate the additions of the filters, but without a manual to show and explain the options it takes me weeks to figure some of it out, just in time for another update with even more added that a person has to dig through to learn.
.


Support. Plus even with a manual, a player does not want to think much. As GFX recognized, it is for niche players, I guess there are many around the world but not that many that will concurrently (in the same week) play the game.

Also this can explain why from 1000+ games per day the game is losing players, indeed it is getting more powerful.

The other problem si that people wants to improve "quickly" instead of enjoying their ranking.
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GFX47
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Re: We need more players.

Post#77 » 07 Oct 2017, 09:32

I try to add features that ease AI creation for everyone.
It's cool to see your tricks to count stuff or detect borders but I don't think the average guy is capable of this.

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Re: We need more players.

Post#78 » 07 Oct 2017, 15:43

GFX47 wrote:I try to add features that ease AI creation for everyone.
It's cool to see your tricks to count stuff or detect borders but I don't think the average guy is capable of this.


Hey GFX, I think I have a solution for you that will please both new players and veterans while leveling the playing field. ^_^
topic: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1093

pier4r
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Re: We need more players.

Post#79 » 08 Oct 2017, 23:04

Checking the screenshots uploaded on telegram (I upload them exactly for checking history afterwards) comparing them with the matches played history, that is valid since June, I deferred the following:

The new "stricter" leagues did not produce a big collpase in games played per day (therefore the new matchmaking should also foster a bit more activity). What brought the activity from 1000+ games per day to 400-500 is alpha 9.1 . Somehow alpha 9.x was not liked or had some bad effects on newcomers. The situation seems not improved since then. The new matchmaking may improve a bit the situation, but I believe something happened that put off the newcomers.
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Re: We need more players.

Post#80 » 08 Oct 2017, 23:19

pier4r wrote:Checking the screenshots uploaded on telegram (I upload them exactly for checking history afterwards) comparing them with the matches played history, that is valid since June, I deferred the following:

The new "stricter" leagues did not produce a big collpase in games played per day (therefore the new matchmaking should also foster a bit more activity). What brought the activity from 1000+ games per day to 400-500 is alpha 9.1 . Somehow alpha 9.x was not liked or had some bad effects on newcomers. The situation seems not improved since then. The new matchmaking may improve a bit the situation, but I believe something happened that put off the newcomers.


The UI rework for the most part, to me the old UI was faster and seemed to make more sense. Along with that some people like me coded using "Closest" instead of ANY/ALL, and it was really off-putting having that taken away. The addition of Counting as a new feature did not help the situation either.

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