Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Earil
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Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#1 » 09 May 2017, 14:23

Hey,

I started the game yesterday, and although I now have a level 7 account (and got to GM league :p), I would like to give my feedback about the level-up system in the game.

The tutorial felt great, but then, when I realized that I had to play with very limited tools, and spend time optimizing my AIs with these limited tools before being able to play the "real" game, it felt very frustrating. What I actually did was to use a very basic AI (was stuck elo 11xx) and just brainlessly spam ladder games until I got the real tools.

I understand that the level-upping system is here to give a feeling of progression, but I think that the tools should be either unlockable in the practice missions or that all options should be available upfront and the level-up should simply unlock cosmetic changes (I'm thinking about the Starcraft 2 level-up system for example, which is similar, but gives you profile icons as rewards and not in-game abilities, and is much better imo).

Being forced to play against other player, stuck with limited options, and having to choose between wasting time optimizing a bad AI without the invaluable actions filters and machine-gun/sniper bots or farming the ladder until getting there is a very frustrating experience. I loved the game on first sight, so it didn't stop me, but I think that it can definitely drive new players away.

Please comment if you agree or disagree, I'd be happy to see what other players think :)

Have a nice day

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#2 » 09 May 2017, 16:24

Hi Earil.

There exists a lot of different discussion about that in this forum. And a lot of them as the same reflexion about the «unlock» of features for your AI.

Actually GFX, the great DEV who always read/answer us in the forum, said that in the future you will unlock all features by completing all the practice, which will be reworked.

So welcome to the game, and see you in the arena!

MrChris
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#3 » 09 May 2017, 19:28

The advanced tools, like tagging, aren't really useful until you have a high score like >1500-1600. Before that, they will just slow you down and make you focus on the wrong aspects of the game.
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TheKidPunisher
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#4 » 09 May 2017, 19:47

I think he was more talking about that you only can have access to sniper a long time after reach opponent who has sniper and think you lose only cause you dont have it (which is not true).

For me tagging is really important, permit to player to experiment tagging since the begining will help them about how it works

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JohnEdwa
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#5 » 17 May 2017, 23:49

Oh no no, the game is totally balanced when you don't have tagging and snipers of your own.
Especially if you happen to hit Grand Master at level 4!
Then it gets especially fun, as you get to fight against people with ELO 600 higher than you with thousands of games under their belts, and they have team tagging and snipers absolutely perfected.
Not being to use snipers in Test Arena just adds that nice challenge as the only way to test your AI is to go to an online match.

See, here are my match stats, I bet you can't figure out the point where I got promoted to Grand Master League. And it is quite hard to get demoted when you don't lose ELO on half of your matches as the difference is so high.
Last edited by JohnEdwa on 17 May 2017, 23:56, edited 1 time in total.

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#6 » 17 May 2017, 23:56

At 1400 elo like all of us, no?

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JohnEdwa
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#7 » 18 May 2017, 00:04

TheKidPunisher wrote:At 1400 elo like all of us, no?

Yes. The point is my match statistics show the ~15 win streak that bumped me suddenly from 1250 ELO to 1400 (at 66% winrate at that moment IIRC), and then the 57 matches in Grand Master League, of which I won... 7, and 4 of the wins were against the same player with an ELO around mine.
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TheKidPunisher
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#8 » 18 May 2017, 00:16

As everybody dude, i got to the grand master league with 70% of winrate. Then i continue to play that permit to analyse how the grands masters play. So go on and try to stay in GM league you will reach the ladder later.

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TheGnoo
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Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#9 » 18 May 2017, 04:35

evilgeenius2 wrote:The advanced tools, like tagging, aren't really useful until you have a high score like >1500-1600. Before that, they will just slow you down and make you focus on the wrong aspects of the game.


I couldn't agree more with you.

@John, I think that, even if you're right, this is a very bad way to point out a "bug" in a new developing game. Especially when the comment above tells you that this problem will be fixed asap.

Just continue playing a few hours and you will get to use these new features. Meanwhile, trying to create an algo that can - even barely - challenge the top masters is the best way to improve your skill in this game.
There is so much to learn that I'm glad I didn't unlock tags before understanding all the mechanics of the IA editor.
And TKP proved that you could reach 1750+ without snipers. Personally, I reached 1700 today and I still don't use tags in my IA (well I try but it doesn't work).

Hope to see you on the battlefield

pier4r
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Posts: 3390

Re: Level-up mechanics feel very clunky : please change.

Post#10 » 18 May 2017, 08:28

JohnEdwa wrote:Oh no no, the game is totally balanced when you don't have tagging and snipers of your own.
Especially if you happen to hit Grand Master at level 4!
Then it gets especially fun, as you get to fight against people with ELO 600 higher than you with thousands of games under their belts, and they have team tagging and snipers absolutely perfected.
Not being to use snipers in Test Arena just adds that nice challenge as the only way to test your AI is to go to an online match.

See, here are my match stats, I bet you can't figure out the point where I got promoted to Grand Master League. And it is quite hard to get demoted when you don't lose ELO on half of your matches as the difference is so high.


Yes we discussed this and it is going to change. But while the sniper is needed, you will find out that tags are a bit less needed. Hold a bit, spam matches (the win rate counts nothing), reach level 6 and then have fun.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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