Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

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Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#1 » 02 Apr 2017, 13:01

Big thanks to the devs for this great game, awesome combo of puzzles and PvP!

After stalling out at just above 1300 with my first AI attempt, I rebuilt a couple of times, tried some new ideas. Some worked, some didn't. Not sure if it was bad ideas or bad implementation. I'm not anything like a real programer, my only real programming previously was some basic Basic back in the 80s.

Now that I'm no longer shielded from the real top players, there is a whole new set of tricks to overcome, and I'm not sure if I even understand what players are doing, let alone how to respond.

Seeing way more dancing shotguns. How do you deal with them? I'm ​thinking of trying to ignore them unless they get up close.

How do you get your team to focus fire? I tried tags and that sucked. Now I try to encourage them to clump up and give them similar targeting priorities, and that mostly works, sort of.

Not asking for code, but a nudge in the right direction would be great.

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Kanishka
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#2 » 02 Apr 2017, 15:51

Hi! Welcome to the GMs. :) First things first, the only programming knowledge I have is QBasic, QB64, Small Basic, and HTML5. And of course Gladiabots AIs. :lol: So you know that all "top" players are not coders. All are not even working grown-ups. About SGs, in short, you can't do anything to them. They are sacred. Just kidding, they blow you up unless your bots are very closesly packed. In case an SG is disturbing you, shoot it whenever it comes in Range, except when it is fleeing and is at long range. Secondly, I hate tags. Action filters are much better.
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#3 » 02 Apr 2017, 15:54

Bonus: here's my AI. All the code.
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#4 » 02 Apr 2017, 18:10

I learned already that trying to ignore shotguns was not just tricky, but a terrible tactic. Cure was worse than the disease.

I like your concept of the all in one AI. I was going that route for a while, then I split into 4 AIs, one for each class. That has been working OK, except when I want to tweak something they all do the same, and then I have to do the same work 4 times. :-(

I may take the time to recombine the whole mess now before it gets any more complicated. I tried subroutines but it sucked not being able to see what was bugging out in a sub.

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#5 » 02 Apr 2017, 18:19

Bingo! That's why I don't use subtrees. And if it helps, try using a generic AI with a little bit of Bot Specifics. That's what I do.
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#6 » 02 Apr 2017, 18:32

I saw where some of your stuff has <self is x bot class> at the top. It had not occurred to me to do things like that.

I'm still trying to get my head around action filters. The ones I have tried did not seem to do what I was expecting. I thought <is self attacking> meant self was being attacked lol

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#7 » 02 Apr 2017, 18:50

Kanishka wrote:Bonus: here's my AI. All the code.


My little AI is puny next to that!
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Kanishka
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#8 » 02 Apr 2017, 19:07

Sheesh. You might want to use a Connector to remove that web. And yeah, Action filters used to be way easier to find... But you get used to it.
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#9 » 02 Apr 2017, 19:46

CappBot wrote:
Now that I'm no longer shielded from the real top players, there is a whole new set of tricks to overcome, and I'm not sure if I even understand what players are doing, let alone how to respond.



This is a pretty common problem, for those that are not dominating the avg score and streaks tournament at least (see in this section).

For the tips, see the question and strategies sections, there are plenty. I would say all the posts with last messages from the 25th of January 2017 are useful.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#10 » 03 Apr 2017, 01:13

I have a pretty similar structure like that "net" part. It's easy to maintain and you can adjust it whenever you feel the need.

Your question is really good, how to with with dancing units. First of all it really helps to ask yourself ... When do they dance and when do they retreat. Most of the bots you see dancing are simple action filtered bots. They check when you are not focused on then, they try to sneak close and attack you, or dance when they can't sneak. So if you see them dancing, that's not the bad part. If they stop dancing and attack you, that's bad.

Imho the most advanced technique against dancers is to push hard and retreat fast. So try to copy that and you will see the disadvantages you can exploit. And try not to get sticked on a stack. If the enemy is on more then one side, your retreatment path is longer (even 10% surrounding are making a big difference).

And you should spend some time to think about when to retreat, when to push.

The question about focused fire is hard to answer. If you focus to much, all other opponents will shoot at you. If you focus to less, you are damaged before he is. So the best way is to think about how to suppress enemy fire. You should shoot more then the other guy. The damage will follow in that case. And there are many ways to suppress fire. You can dance, you can shoot and let him flee, you can retreat, etc. If the opponent focuses your SG and you retreat fast enough, no damage is fine and many rounds of ammunition is wasted. That's also a kind of suppressed fire.

That are only some generalist​ic ideas. Like Pier did, there are many good ideas about tagging, decorators, action filters, etc in the strategy forum.

I hope that helped a little bit. Hope to see you soon in a match

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#11 » 03 Apr 2017, 03:52

Kanishka wrote:Sheesh. You might want to use a Connector to remove that web. And yeah, Action filters used to be way easier to find... But you get used to it.


Haha, I my new universal AI, ALPHABOT has an even more impressive (insane) web. Like Ritter said it makes fine tuning easier. But I may need connectors. Right now I am meditating on tryimg to use one big web for all 4 classes or to build one web for each class. The web is my advance/how far/retreat function. I've been just using <attack weakest enemy> that is inside the range each bot should be looking at in the current tick.

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#12 » 03 Apr 2017, 04:47

Haha. You're like me... I too have a webbed retreat system. :lol:
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#13 » 10 Apr 2017, 03:50

Kanishka wrote:Bonus: here's my AI. All the code.


I was thinking whether my AI is too complicated. It seems not.

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#14 » 10 Apr 2017, 04:02

CappBot wrote:
My little AI is puny next to that!
Screenshot_2017-04-02-23-43-45.png


My basic idea is to firstly think about retreat, then firing and pushing. And about 1/3 of my nodes serve for retreat, and 1/3 for pushing, 1/3 for all others.

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#15 » 10 Apr 2017, 05:17

Castlevania wrote:
Kanishka wrote:Bonus: here's my AI. All the code.


I was thinking whether my AI is too complicated. It seems not.


Mwahahahaha! :twisted:
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#16 » 25 Apr 2017, 05:52

Finally broke 1500. Was pretty sure for a while that I'd never get there, was just holding on to 1400ish for a while, watching my bots get destroyed by bots doing stuff I had no clue why they were doing it, or how they were programmed to do such things.

But I kept on and kept tweaking what I had. Mostly I still am using one master AI for all my bots except for the mind game map. That map is so different from the others, the same rules just did not seem to apply.

One critique from where I stand, I think maybe 1400 is a little bit too low to promote to the top league. 1500 too high though. Maybe 1450.

I also miss seeing my rating on the league bar. But that is pretty minor.

This may be the longest a phone game has held my interest, ever, so thanks for the entertainment!

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#17 » 25 Apr 2017, 06:43

CappBot wrote:watching my bots get destroyed by bots doing stuff I had no clue why they were doing it, or how they were programmed to do such things.


Things such as?
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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#18 » 25 Apr 2017, 11:34

Kanishka wrote:
CappBot wrote:watching my bots get destroyed by bots doing stuff I had no clue why they were doing it, or how they were programmed to do such things.


Things such as?


A lot of it is shotguns running around, doing odd things. I think some of it is darting in to try to pick up balls, or to mess with target selection.

I almost never use the shotgun unit, because I think using it well takes trickier programming than I can bring to the table.

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Re: Just broke into GM league. Dance party!

Post#19 » 25 Apr 2017, 15:30

CappBot wrote:
Kanishka wrote:
CappBot wrote:watching my bots get destroyed by bots doing stuff I had no clue why they were doing it, or how they were programmed to do such things.


Things such as?


A lot of it is shotguns running around, doing odd things. I think some of it is darting in to try to pick up balls, or to mess with target selection.

I almost never use the shotgun unit, because I think using it well takes trickier programming than I can bring to the table.


Well, ShotGun is my favorite bot.
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