Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

pier4r
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Posts: 3390

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#21 » 17 Nov 2016, 21:26

Johnbob wrote:The problem is that the learning curve will be harder and it is one of the good aspects of this game that you learn the basics easily. The tutorial is good and it's important to attract more players.


You have quite a strong point.

With mores stuff to do it will require longer tutorials. See for example the games that have a lot of elements like "the sequence" (android)
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MGBlitz81
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#22 » 18 Nov 2016, 02:18

You could simplify it to degrees relative of the direction you are facing. Then you can say 90 degrees in front, behind, left, and right.

But seriously, I know it's on the roadmap but we need more options so that no two AIs are alike. As it is now, EVERY AI is similar. At least in alpha 4 we had a mid range game to consider. Now it's 80% long range and 20% short game. We have dancing snipers, machine gunners that shoot in one spot until either them or the enemy is dead, and shotguns rushing to the front lines. We got a long way to go still and I'm looking forward to the changes.

Oh and I'm not worried about the learning curve, that's what leagues are for. But we really need a lot more options as far as nodes go.

Maaku
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Posts: 9

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#23 » 18 Nov 2016, 05:08

pier4r wrote:
HDeffo wrote:As complicated as it sounds to set up I really do hope someday this game adds in angles, degrees, numbers, math, variables, etc. Just adding in the ability to calculate math would throw the best AI cap and differences so high it would be unbelievable


I do too, hpefully it will be turning complete one day, but that's a lot of work so, I appreciate small addition from time to time.


Fine tuning and math sounds good it would be cool if they had an advanced button to access those values in the nodes, with this advanced button it will keep everything neat to keep from scaring away casual players.

Edit. Actually calling the advanced button the "tuning" button would make sense and it would be simple to hit the button then edit the values in existing nodes or adding new math or logic nodes. For new players they won't bother with tuning button and can play with default values until they get a firm grasp on what the nodes do.

pier4r
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Posts: 3390

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#24 » 18 Nov 2016, 09:06

MGBlitz81 wrote:You could simplify it to degrees relative of the direction you are facing. Then you can say 90 degrees in front, behind, left, and right.

But seriously, I know it's on the roadmap but we need more options so that no two AIs are alike. As it is now, EVERY AI is similar. At least in alpha 4 we had a mid range game to consider. Now it's 80% long range and 20% short game. We have dancing snipers, machine gunners that shoot in one spot until either them or the enemy is dead, and shotguns rushing to the front lines. We got a long way to go still and I'm looking forward to the changes.

Oh and I'm not worried about the learning curve, that's what leagues are for. But we really need a lot more options as far as nodes go.


This because assault in league4 is missing. I would say that there are faster and fairer way to achieve variety before (note before, I do not exclude that) making nodes with more options.
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ntk
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#25 » 18 Nov 2016, 12:44

U criple shotgun now do the same with the snipers?
No good for me
Fix what do u want, all these changes bored me like the other players.

You are wrong

I will not give my solution
I will continue to play as long as i enjoy it and then ...

Is not much time left

pier4r
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#26 » 18 Nov 2016, 13:04

ntk could you rephrase? I did not understand.
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Maaku
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#27 » 18 Nov 2016, 13:32

ntk wrote:U criple shotgun now do the same with the snipers?
No good for me
Fix what do u want, all these changes bored me like the other players.

You are wrong

I will not give my solution
I will continue to play as long as i enjoy it and then ...

Is not much time left


I'm interpreting the first line as "you nerfed shotguns now you want to do the same to snipers", to which I say no we are not suggesting to nerf snipers

Interpreting the second line as "I like things the way they are, but fix what you guys want to fix" to which I say gfx has the final say on what direction he want the game to go we just discussing some ideas we had.

I guess the "you are wrong" is straight forward but which part do you specifically disagree with, is it the state of the game being rock paper scissors?

The line after I guess you are saying either "I know how to fix the problem but I won't tell you" or "I will keep my ideas to myself"

The line after "I will keep playing but I don't like the direction the game is going"

Final line I guess either you saying the game is dying or you are dying which I guess is unfortunate in both cases.

If english is not your thing just type it in Japanese or whatever you use and we can help you translate. Also correct the interpretations if it's wrong.

Edit . Shotguns not crippled, Im in around the same elo rating as you using mostly shotgun, it's powerful vs sniper teams

ntk
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Posts: 75

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#28 » 18 Nov 2016, 15:52

I like easy game
i didn't like play with paper for write ai and some other.
Up and down on league with rules of unit is wrong.

Think u of rewrite all your AI without snipers or other rules it will be a job not a game. Don't think: 'i never go down in league'

Game need be easy but complex togheter

U do wrong.this i want said

pier4r
Skynet
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Posts: 3390

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#29 » 18 Nov 2016, 18:31

Aaaaah are you against additional complexity and demotions? But with a game like this is inevitable I would say, exactly because it is visual programming. At the end you have to write "on paper" your ideas.

It is the same for whatever competitive game, on android or not. In quakelive, that people just shoot one another, people trains for 8h per day for competitions.

Either one adapts quickly or slowly, has not to be a Job, if one does not like to adapt too fast, the simply accepts to have a lower score.

If one does not want to "think" too much and does nto want to lose score, then it is the wrong approach in my opinion.
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Optometrist_Prime
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Posts: 3

Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#30 » 22 Nov 2016, 12:33

Maaku wrote:
MGBlitz81 wrote:I don't like it so much, doesn't seem very AI like... Instead we should just have directional scanning for enemies and more movement options to include strafing and fleeing in different directions. The AI shouldn't be limited to moving closer to and away from enemies and static locations. It should be able to consider the best direction to take when moving to enemies and static locations even if that means taking a few turns in the processn


Choosing what directions to flee/strafing sounds good as well, so another vote from me.

Actually it would be cool to be able to shoot and move at a reduced move speed with a penalty to accuracy maybe it will let assault have a special role as well being able to shoot and move with less penalty then other classes. Slower then move commands and less damaging then straight up attacking, but opens up many options tactically.

Also lets units reposition while shooting slowly opens up so many new strategies.


Maybe that could be the advantage for assault class? It can be the only class that can strafe and shoot without penalties

All others can also do this, but are heavily penalised for it

That also stops machine gun from being a stronger assault class

:)

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NullPointer
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#31 » 22 Nov 2016, 13:19

Assault could be able to shoot while moving.

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Fixing Fancy Rock Paper Scissors

Post#32 » 22 Nov 2016, 15:43

Nice idea

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