Seeking Programmers

HDeffo
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Seeking Programmers

Post#1 » 14 Nov 2016, 23:18

Soon I will be starting on writing a gladiabots engine to calculate possible matches. I will run this engine on a separate account giving it control of a macro so it can start matches I it's own (if GFX is cool with this) and see how well us players can compete against an actual AI deploying AIs. If GFX isnt cool with it running on its own account it'll just be fun to say we made it. Anyways I want to see if anyone would like to work on this project with me. You must have some basic knowledge of negamax, alpha beta pruning, and basic game knowledge. The project will likely be written in Lua due to the simplicity of the language and how easy it is to integrate into auto hot keys. If you have some programming experience and dont know Lua I'm willing to teach you the basics. The project will be open source and accessible to anyone if youre contributing or not

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GFX47
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#2 » 14 Nov 2016, 23:23

I'm totally cool with it (as long as it doesn't spam too much the server) and can't wait to see the results.
Good luck!

pier4r
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#3 » 14 Nov 2016, 23:24

kudos for the effort, as I already wrote you :)
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Avaren
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#4 » 15 Nov 2016, 04:24

I would love to help, but unfortunately have no idea what negamax is, or why alpha and beta need pruning.
Good luck though!

AI's making AI's making AI's.

pier4r
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#5 » 15 Nov 2016, 08:00

Avaren it is more: heuristic (fixed by humans) refines heuristic (fixed by humans).
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Arekusandoru
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#6 » 15 Nov 2016, 23:34

I don't quite get what you are trying to do or for what purpose. Is it about programming some soft that is supposed to create it's own Gladiabots AI's without your help?

Nieve
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#7 » 16 Nov 2016, 01:12

Hello I'm new to both gladiabots and this forum and I am learning how to program but I am not familiar with any game making programming concepts.

HDeffo
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#8 » 16 Nov 2016, 04:33

Arekusandoru wrote:I don't quite get what you are trying to do or for what purpose. Is it about programming some soft that is supposed to create it's own Gladiabots AI's without your help?


Yup It'll be a true gladiabots AI :D

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Arekusandoru
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#9 » 16 Nov 2016, 05:44

HDeffo wrote:
Arekusandoru wrote:I don't quite get what you are trying to do or for what purpose. Is it about programming some soft that is supposed to create it's own Gladiabots AI's without your help?


Yup It'll be a true gladiabots AI :D

Sounds difficult to accomplish :ugeek: What do you want to use? Some metaheuristics, genetic algorythms, neural networks?

HDeffo
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#10 » 16 Nov 2016, 14:04

I'll be basing it on basic chess engine logic. Assign a value to various positions health and shield values and have the engine search up to specific depths to build each AI which it will then compete against itself and other players to keep improving.the exact back bone of it is minimax. Hardest part of course is tailoring a minimax algorithm when you don't even yet know your opponent :p

H3x
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#11 » 16 Nov 2016, 19:59

As this game is non-deterministic I wouldn't recommend a minimax approach. I can't imagine search tactics working very well in this space. I would agree with that a genetic algorithm might be your best bet. Even that would be kinda sucky though.

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GFX47
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#12 » 16 Nov 2016, 21:03

H3x wrote:this game is non-deterministic


It actually is ^^

H3x
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#13 » 17 Nov 2016, 01:59

Wow, I'm wrong about everything today. I thought there was an element of chance to the shots based on range

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Arekusandoru
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#14 » 17 Nov 2016, 02:03

H3x wrote:Wow, I'm wrong about everything today. I thought there was an element of chance to the shots based on range

I misunderstood that too :? But it's actually deterministic

HDeffo
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#15 » 17 Nov 2016, 17:23

H3x wrote:Wow, I'm wrong about everything today. I thought there was an element of chance to the shots based on range


Nope shots are calculated when chance>=100 essentially (for anyone know who's programming). I did a whole massive calculation on the exact DPS of all classes on the old forums because of this

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NullPointer
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#16 » 17 Nov 2016, 20:06

GFX47 wrote:
H3x wrote:this game is non-deterministic


It actually is ^^


Initially I thought it was non-deterministic because I can still find randomness when I put an AI to play against itself. Then I realised it's not randomness, it's just that something is not 100% symmetric. I imagine this is not by design, so there's a bug somewhere.

SMArt69
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#17 » 17 Nov 2016, 20:29

Too much conditions, it's not only about DPS: then U change "flee from" target, and change conditions not for all bots or not to all AI's. IMHO waste of time, sorry. Also we will see lot of dumb "AIs created by AI"))

HDeffo
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#18 » 18 Nov 2016, 02:43

SMArt69 wrote:Too much conditions, it's not only about DPS: then U change "flee from" target, and change conditions not for all bots or not to all AI's. IMHO waste of time, sorry. Also we will see lot of dumb "AIs created by AI"))


Actually you are looking at this problem the same way chess experts were when trying to make a chess AI before deep blue came out. You are trying to make the AI think like a person and not a computer. Computers can't use logic or reason so there's no point in going down that path, instead we focus in RAW memory. The plan is to use Negamax or Minimax to calculate likely ways the opponent's bots would react to mine, at which point the AI determines the best method of reaction by choosing what current positions my bots could be in given all enemy positions and how to get them to optimal locations with the limited conditions we have. The bulk of the problem is solving "how to do this with these options". Knowing how to deal with situations is no problem at all because I plan to use a +- value system similar to how chess bots work and all the AI has to calculate is the best map set up without even needing to know deeper maps "excluding how I decide to handle the horizon effect". From there I'll just have my AI keep deploying new matches as it dedicates the rest of its processing to search deeper depths of the game (probably in .25second increments) until it solves the whole game at depth 720 (it'll likely never reach this depth)

pier4r
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#19 » 18 Nov 2016, 09:03

Hmm but one doubt. For every step gladiabots has easily way more possible action than chess (in chess the average is between 20 and 30) in whatever map, well maybe not mind game. Chess programs struggle to get depth 15 in reasonable time, I wonder how can you get depth, say, 50.

When you will put your code in an open repository (github?) I would really like to see it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

SMArt69
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Re: Seeking Programmers

Post#20 » 18 Nov 2016, 11:29

HDeffo, It'll be great to see the final result of U work, pls post the name of your AI_AIGenerator -- to see the results it leader board, or fight with them))

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