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League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 21:48
by Revenge
What version of league matchmaking is most fun?

How can we make the Elo system more enjoyable to play?

Thoughts on current system?

Re: League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 23:46
by mcompany
mcompany wrote:
Melkor wrote:The problem is, even though one victory would offset all those losses, I'm not going to get a victory against mrchris or any of the people in his tier. So eventually I, and everyone who's about the same as me or just below me are eventually going to get pushed into silver.

I'm just going to say that during 6.1.3 when I stopped using tags (and couldn't use action filters because they wasn't in the game yet), I pretty much was always beaten badly by the higher ranked players, yet I never got demoted out of the top league. And during 7.x, when a bunch of players without snipers playing against players with snipers was a massive issue, despite losing basically every match, they still found it hard to even try to get demoted on purpose to fight players that was easier to beat. So quite simply, this really isn't true at all

Re: League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 00:02
by pier4r
if you want to play with stats:
http://clserver1.cz.pier4r.t28.net:2080 ... _db_dumps/

although I already explained the structure of the files many times. Ask chris/evilgenius for it, I explained it too many times.

Re: League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 01:29
by Revenge
Don't all games have a problem at the highest tiers? In overwatch and other games, the higher you climb, the greater the player scarcity gets(at least after a certain point).

Its almost impossible to have all tiers be equal, and even if you did, that would mean you are artificially inflating Grandmaster tier with players who aren't prepared to keep up.

Re: League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 08:52
by pier4r
If a game is tiered. Yes.

In whatever competition, at the top you have few players with very high performances. One can see this in many sports.

For example I'd assume that in franche the Paris saint German obliterate pretty easily other teams in the French league, and it is not that a game PSG vs small club is that interesting because the result is almost obvious most of the time.

Anyway we have the elo formula that is there for us to compute the expected result, and I would cut the "borders" of what a player can challenge when it reaches 90% of "expected victory", so 400 points.

At the end if one wants to meet more players, there are unranked games, so it is not needed.

Also, the top league should have always a kfactor of 20, the new kfactor of 30 would make the gap larger.

Re: League Suggestions & Improvements

Posted: 07 Oct 2017, 16:58
by Revenge
GFX47 wrote:
Athelinde wrote:
pier4r wrote:I propose once again: one huge league, dynamic "leagues" done with +/- a score. 400 points of difference maximum.

So 1900 vs 1500 can happen, and it is not totally meaningless. But 2200 vs 1500 cannot happen because that is meaningless.


To me this way of doing this makes a lot of sense.

The leagues were nice to mark a kind of mile stone in your development, but that has already mostly disappeared with the new leagues. It would be a compromise to do the match making according to the big/dynamic league idea, and have the leagues like we had until recently as a cosmetic thing, basically calling you in a certain league because your elo is in the correct range, but it not having any effect except the title thing, because it just feels more satisfying to say your in the diamond league, than to say 'I have an elo somewhere between 1400 and 1600'.


OK, you convinced me.
It was a mistake to regroup the leagues as I did, sorry about that.
I already patched the elo K factors earlier today.
I'll revert the leagues and change the matchmaking accordingly later today.
Thanks for your suggestions guys.

Copied from Alpha 10.3 forum.