Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

pier4r
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Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#1 » 14 Nov 2016, 19:26

The discussion was already in the limited itch.io forum, let's try it again.

As the question said. Actually to show how complex is an Ai/decision tree one should count the valid path, but let's count the nodes that are simpler. So how many actions + conditions (no subtrees) has your most effective (in multiplayer) AI?

disclaimer: it is not true that more = better, but surely it is an index of how much a player is engaged.


old discussion: https://itch.io/t/47164/discussionshowi ... r-valid-ai
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NullPointer
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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#2 » 14 Nov 2016, 19:58

7 wonders, 4x~55 nodes.

I use 4 AIs with an average of 55 nodes each, but I may be able to reduce to 40 when I remove obsolete parts from Alpha 5.1. Depending on the tweaks you guys use against me I may need to enhance it much more though, I'll recount in a couple of weeks.

pier4r
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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#3 » 14 Nov 2016, 20:29

If you were prowler I played against you in seven wonders (you have the tactic to open your team of snipers), nice match.
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NullPointer
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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#4 » 14 Nov 2016, 20:52

Yes, that was me, thanks.
I recently lost 53 points with this AI in 2 matches though, still working on its flaws.

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#5 » 14 Nov 2016, 21:41

I lost 200 points last night :oops:

I thinking never play on night :lol:

I got back.... :mrgreen: but i thought some player use strange AI. I meet two players with game DRAW but they win the game but didn't got the resource. What it mean? It's a joke? Or AI sharing, with bug?

pier4r
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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#6 » 14 Nov 2016, 21:48

NullPointer wrote:Yes, that was me, thanks.
I recently lost 53 points with this AI in 2 matches though, still working on its flaws.


Well good, otherwise would be boring. And I still think that this game is like rock, scissor , paper. I hypothisethat there is no advanced ai that wins against all the other advanced Ai given the same map.
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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#7 » 14 Nov 2016, 22:08

It's very likely, except for Mind Game. I always lose points there with draws and I don't think I can improve the AI in any way.

pier4r
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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#8 » 14 Nov 2016, 22:47

NullPointer wrote:It's very likely, except for Mind Game. I always lose points there with draws and I don't think I can improve the AI in any way.


Well the problem is that you are there on top with 1600 and the others are mostly 1300 or 1400, so either you win few points or mostly you lose them. In terms of elo you have reached the current top. Either you focus on the second statistic, the win rate, to raise it as much as possible (continously playing), or you hold your place until new maps and new challengers shows up.

Sooner or later there will be more than a handful of players that can snatch the top score. Mgblitz is already warming up.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#9 » 15 Nov 2016, 06:38

I have 2 groups. High fire rate algo: with 15 -17 nodes. Score/bait/meat-shield algo with 30ish nodes.

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#10 » 15 Nov 2016, 09:51

ntk wrote: I meet two players with game DRAW but they win the game but didn't got the resource.


I think one of this draws was me. Unexpected for me to, I think it was a bug. I replayed several times, clearly a draw but I got some points. Happened to me only one time before last update :geek:

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#11 » 15 Nov 2016, 09:55

I counted 40 nodes for my mind game bot, most bots have 25-30 nodes, some have less

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#12 » 15 Nov 2016, 09:58

Ritter Runkel wrote:
ntk wrote: I meet two players with game DRAW but they win the game but didn't got the resource.


I think one of this draws was me. Unexpected for me to, I think it was a bug. I replayed several times, clearly a draw but I got some points. Happened to me only one time before last update :geek:


On which map did it happen?
What did the game show? Draw or victory/defeat?

Reminder: in case of a draw, the weakest player takes some points from the strongest (in terms of initial score).

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#13 » 15 Nov 2016, 19:56

It happened on Mindgame map (so must be after the last update if I remember correctly). We booth did not get the Resource but at the end I was told, that it was a victory.

What happened (imho) was that before the match ended I pressed on replay to watch how the other bots behaved. Then I think, I changed something with the BOT Configuration (I don't know how, it was more by accident) and then I won. I went back and watched the game again and then there was this initial configuration where we got the draw. I think that the victory came from the other BOT configuration I changed accidently. I did not try to reproduce that to avoid other weird results. So I am not sure what really happend.

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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#14 » 15 Nov 2016, 21:13

pier4r wrote:Well good, otherwise would be boring. And I still think that this game is like rock, scissor , paper. I hypothisethat there is no advanced ai that wins against all the other advanced Ai given the same map.

I agree, I keep thinking and researching for an AI that can win against shotgun/machinegun/sniper but can't really find it. Split team is the most rock/paper/scissors to me and seven wonders and set your priorities a little bit too. Meeting point is very interesting and hard but i may have found something, still need to be proven.

By the way: welcome back to nullpointer ! We missed you :-)

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#15 » 15 Nov 2016, 23:33

How do you guys get 50 or more nodes?! I have a simple 10 to 20 nodes(I think maybe less)
Muhaha!
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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#16 » 15 Nov 2016, 23:47

Most of the nodes come from some special cases like: "If only snipers" or "if only shotguns". That are the cases when another tactic could be useful and you do not know who is your enemy before the game is deployed.

With that extra nodes the game has nothing to do with rock/paper/scissors (or only in some very special cases).

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NullPointer
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Re: [Discussion]Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#17 » 16 Nov 2016, 11:43

Johnbob wrote:
pier4r wrote:Well good, otherwise would be boring. And I still think that this game is like rock, scissor , paper. I hypothisethat there is no advanced ai that wins against all the other advanced Ai given the same map.

I agree, I keep thinking and researching for an AI that can win against shotgun/machinegun/sniper but can't really find it. Split team is the most rock/paper/scissors to me and seven wonders and set your priorities a little bit too. Meeting point is very interesting and hard but i may have found something, still need to be proven.

By the way: welcome back to nullpointer ! We missed you :-)


Thanks!
I was not completely away though, I was playing on my second account on my mobile and it's good to be back to my desktop, it takes forever to build an AI on that small screen.

We had a draw in yesterday, game says we need a rematch :D

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#18 » 16 Nov 2016, 12:55

lol I won't be greedy, I'll stay third for today :-) Many flows in my AI and no time to improve it (and i play on a Nexus 5)

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#19 » 18 Nov 2016, 04:41

I have 17 total conditions plus actions in my most used AI. It seems to behave fine most of the time.

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Re: Showing off: how many nodes has your (valid) Ai? #2

Post#20 » 20 Nov 2016, 14:24

I have 1 AI with 41 nods for all maps / all bots and i just unlocked the machine gun bot.

Must be beginners luck :)

Now I need to make some more adjustments, I would like to keep trying "One AI to rule them all" approach to see how high it can go before I give up and toss it to flames of mount doom.

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