[Alpha 7.9] Monetization

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GFX47
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#21 » 22 Feb 2017, 18:57

You actually have to use the same itch.io account you used the first time you downloaded the game to benefit from the "ownership".
Now I realize most desktop players must have downloaded the game without creating any account :[
So I guess you'll have to pay for it.
The minimum price is now 4.99$ but you can still choose to pay more.

Botique
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#22 » 22 Feb 2017, 19:11

Oookay, looks like everything work.
One possible bug I guess... on alpha 7.8 I was on 7th place, but now I am on 8th place of Ladder... hmmm :D

BTW is there anything else on the new version? Bug fixes, stuff? New AI commands? Anti NullPointer missiles?

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GFX47
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#23 » 22 Feb 2017, 19:21

Haha, some anti-nullpointerexception fixes but no anti-nullpointer measures ;)
More seriously, just some improvements on the stats site and tweaks on the XP system.
Go check the roadmap ;)
http://roadmap.gladiabots.com

pier4r
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#24 » 22 Feb 2017, 19:32

GFX47 wrote:
That's another interesting system but I fear players would drop the game because of the next batch cost even if they enjoy the game.
But this has to be tested!

This free demo/full game via IAP is "just" a first iteration.
I want to try different things along the way and see how players react to it.
It could be the next iteration:
- free demo
- 100 matches for 0.5$, 300 for 1$, ...
- unlimited matches for 2.5$


Of course I have no doubts that you will find a solution, I mean you created gladiabots!

The point is that there are literally tons of polished games but with no challenge whatsoever. I mean gladiabots is way more challenging (thanks to human minds) and therefore way more engaging. So I think it can ask for more cash.

For example taking "make more!" an idle game (there are a ton), polished but with NO TUTORIAL WHATSOEVER and with very dismal game mechanics (in practice, one has to produce units that takes more and more time. Weeks).

Now to speed up your production, they say "ehy, you can buy virtual money and build faster"

Make More!_20170222_190305.jpg
Make More!_20170222_190305.jpg (127.87 KiB) Viewed 1676 times


75 EUR for something that has no sense.

Therefore offering something similar on core factors of the game that nevertheless do not affects balance (like "buy multiplayer tokens to play" as we discussed, but I would give away "unlimited games" only for an high price, like 50 EUR or more), should not be a problem.

Now that I think about you can just create more XP levels, after some they are just cosmetics (like XP levels 1-1000 but only the first 6 are unlocking real stuff. With the last level reachable with literal tons of XP) and people can pay for buying XP faster.

Of course those are just ideas, but I believe a game like yours deserve something like EUR 75+k /year (since you are in France, where healtcare and education should be supported by the state. Otherwise it would be 150k+) and as written I see this only with fairly continuous purchases.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#25 » 22 Feb 2017, 20:08

Botique wrote:p.s. for extra 5$ will you send me regulary NullPointer AI setup... he does not need to know :twisted:


:lol:

GFX, I hope that the payed model works well. Personally I like the pay once model more then the pay monthly or per bunch of games. I don't know how often I quitted Spotify because I didn't use it for two or three month ... And then I come back again :?

What I'm not sure about is, of a fixed amount of multiplayer games is enough to hook the people. Maybe you can make something like 50 matches and after that only one match per hour?

Or pier can check in the Stats where the threshold is to get hooked. What is the median matchcount of people not playing any more?

What I want to say is that you should use the momentum.

All the best and
beaucoup de succès

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#26 » 22 Feb 2017, 20:13

Ritter Runkel wrote:
Or pier can check in the Stats where the threshold is to get hooked. What is the median matchcount of people not playing any more?



I did it long ago, more or less 85k games after alpha 5.X was released (now we are 330k) but I would say the distribution should be similar:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9&start=20#p774

I would say that the median is lower than 50. But nevertheless I like your idea. Keep in mind that a playerbase is needed otherwise the game stagnates.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

sethcohn
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#27 » 22 Feb 2017, 20:37

If you haven't considered it yet, I strongly suggest Amazon's Underground. They pay _per_ minute your apps is used. So instead of $2.50 for a user one time, you get like paid per minute so long as they use the app. (It's like $0.002 a minute, so 2 cents for 10 minutes, or 12 cents an hour, $1.20 for 10 hours, meaning you'd get ~$2.50 for some one playing the game in just 21 hours.... and then continue to get paid beyond that.

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#28 » 22 Feb 2017, 20:49

Sethcohn, interesting but how does Amazon get revenue back?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#29 » 22 Feb 2017, 21:05

pier4r wrote:Sethcohn, interesting but how does Amazon get revenue back?


I am

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GFX47
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#30 » 22 Feb 2017, 21:58

pier4r wrote:The point is that there are literally tons of polished games but with no challenge whatsoever. I mean gladiabots is way more challenging (thanks to human minds) and therefore way more engaging. So I think it can ask for more cash.


This is exactly why it has less commercial potential than the usual casual game.

pier4r wrote:For example taking "make more!" an idle game (there are a ton), polished but with NO TUTORIAL WHATSOEVER and with very dismal game mechanics (in practice, one has to produce units that takes more and more time. Weeks).

Now to speed up your production, they say "ehy, you can buy virtual money and build faster"

Make More!_20170222_190305.jpg

75 EUR for something that has no sense.


Unfortunately, sense, depth or purpose is not relevant anymore. Especially on mobile.
It's much more a question of accessibility, addiction and various mind fuckery XD

pier4r wrote:Therefore offering something similar on core factors of the game that nevertheless do not affects balance (like "buy multiplayer tokens to play" as we discussed, but I would give away "unlimited games" only for an high price, like 50 EUR or more), should not be a problem.


50€ seems really high for mobile.
Would anyone here honestly put so much money on a mobile game?

pier4r wrote:Now that I think about you can just create more XP levels, after some they are just cosmetics (like XP levels 1-1000 but only the first 6 are unlocking real stuff. With the last level reachable with literal tons of XP) and people can pay for buying XP faster.


That "pay to skip" is precisely the kind of thing I hate in most mobile games ^^
That moment when you realize the whole game has been designed around this idea of trapping you in a mindless "gameplay" loop unless you want to pay the ransom...

pier4r wrote:Of course those are just ideas, but I believe a game like yours deserve something like EUR 75+k /year (since you are in France, where healtcare and education should be supported by the state. Otherwise it would be 150k+) and as written I see this only with fairly continuous purchases.


You have a funny way of computing things but I'd love it to be even halfly true! XD


Also, let's not forget that the game is multi-platform and I have to keep a certain consistence between the different models.

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GFX47
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#31 » 22 Feb 2017, 22:03

sethcohn wrote:If you haven't considered it yet, I strongly suggest Amazon's Underground. They pay _per_ minute your apps is used. So instead of $2.50 for a user one time, you get like paid per minute so long as they use the app. (It's like $0.002 a minute, so 2 cents for 10 minutes, or 12 cents an hour, $1.20 for 10 hours, meaning you'd get ~$2.50 for some one playing the game in just 21 hours.... and then continue to get paid beyond that.


This and things like Hatch indeed seem trendy these days.
I hope to see those guys at GDC next week.

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#32 » 22 Feb 2017, 22:09

GFX47 wrote:.


Ok those were just ideas and yes I put some 50 euro per year in a game, some games have often those players. Mostly, anyway, those huge purchases are there as a bait. "Look I will never pay 50 euro, but I buy the reasonable 2 euro that is way enough and it is only 2 euro!".
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

evilgeenius
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#33 » 22 Feb 2017, 22:45

I think you should give all the practice levels away for free . They are boring and not a good part of the game, so why not?

If 10 games is a lifetime limit and not per day then this worries me because 10 games doesn't seem anywhere close enough to really get addicted to it (like I am) and we need loads of people playing.

:-)

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#34 » 22 Feb 2017, 22:55

Hmm, a possible cutoff could be the XP level of the mg or sniper. You just unlocked the MG/sniper, you had to play a bit, but now either you pay or not.

A concept that could help in this case is the sunk cost, or in other words "I'm so deep in it, that I won't stop".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#35 » 22 Feb 2017, 23:36

pier4r wrote:Ok those were just ideas and yes I put some 50 euro per year in a game, some games have often those players.


That's what they call "whales", players who are willing to pay much more than the average.

pier4r wrote:Mostly, anyway, those huge purchases are there as a bait. "Look I will never pay 50 euro, but I buy the reasonable 2 euro that is way enough and it is only 2 euro!".


pier4r wrote:Hmm, a possible cutoff could be the XP level of the mg or sniper. You just unlocked the MG/sniper, you had to play a bit, but now either you pay or not.

A concept that could help in this case is the sunk cost, or in other words "I'm so deep in it, that I won't stop".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost


You see, that's what I call mind fuckery :D
Not very respectful of the players in my opinion.

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#36 » 22 Feb 2017, 23:41

hihi, but gladiabots deserves it!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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GFX47
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#37 » 22 Feb 2017, 23:54

evilgeenius wrote:I think you should give all the practice levels away for free . They are boring and not a good part of the game, so why not?


Lots of players actually find them rather challenging.
But why not.

evilgeenius wrote:If 10 games is a lifetime limit and not per day then this worries me because 10 games doesn't seem anywhere close enough to really get addicted to it (like I am) and we need loads of people playing.

:-)


The game is "free to try", not free to play.
As I said earlier, both limits (solo missions and multiplayer matches) will be A/B tested.

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Kanishka
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#38 » 23 Feb 2017, 08:06

I open the thread... The first thing... And the only thing I noticed: 'mind-fuckery' :lol:

GFX47 wrote:This is exactly why it has less commercial potential than the usual casual game.


You know what I see? I see potential.

GFX47 wrote:Unfortunately, sense, depth or purpose is not relevant anymore. Especially on mobile.
It's much more a question of accessibility, addiction and various mind fuckery XD


Meh. I'm still after sense, depth and purpose. That's why I like Monument Valley, Limbo, Godus, you get the idea... I'm not gonna share my whole list of games... At least not now. And no, I don't like Gladiabots... I love it. ;)

Candy Crush? Absolute no-no. As stated, it's a senseless game of addiction, and 'mind-fuckery'.

GFX47 wrote:50€ seems really high for mobile.
Would anyone here honestly put so much money on a mobile game?


Nope.

pier4r wrote:hihi, but gladiabots deserves it!


Ayyy... Truest thing I've ever heard. :D
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Botique
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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#39 » 23 Feb 2017, 09:17

Yea I think all the levels of practice should be free?

Question - is the "testing" free? If yes, then actually people are getting some sort of "multiplayer". It can be turned into hot-seat game, where me and my buddy create red and white team AI-s and we compete at home. No ladder, of course, but even with free game one can play a lot and train their bots and get hooked up.

Regarding monetization. I agree, that people on mobile are expecting quick dive-in, quick understanding and long play and replayability. While gladiabots will beat any game with multiplayer, it's dive-in is not so easy.

One thing you might consider is adding more robust tutorial with some more advanced sample bots or "code-snippets" for players who are considering dive-in, but can't figure out some tips and tricks.

And I think - bot customization (like it's look) could be sell-point. It does not give any advantage on game, but players could spend 1-2$ to buy some skins. You can actually consider buying bot models... like customized assault bot with different model - behaves exactly as assault-vulgaris but just neat cosmetics... like in starcraft you can customize some of your units and get different models.

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Re: [Alpha 7.9] Monetization

Post#40 » 23 Feb 2017, 09:43

True if the test arena is free that would be enough to get hooked for the ones that are curious
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