Alpha 11

mumpsimus
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#61 » 26 Nov 2017, 07:19

mcompany wrote:During 10.x, one of the biggest boosts to my elo was a major winning streak on Barred Spiral with my auto-deploy. And really, playing as often as possible on your good maps and avoiding your bad maps seems like too much of an ability to manipulate your score instead of it being legitimate and fair. At least if you can't control what map you can auto deploy, you can't try to control your wins and loses as much and it would stay at least a little more fair


This has become kind of a moot point now that you can cancel autodeployed matches, hasn't it?

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#62 » 26 Nov 2017, 08:22

It'll all be useless once we have only procedurally generated Maps, and a single AI for everything.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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LuBeNo
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#63 » 26 Nov 2017, 08:51

IMO the autodeploy feature will always distort results. But I see the use for more activity. I think it should be replaced once leaving beta. (or as kanishka points out it could be obsolete by random maps - depends on the implementation)
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#64 » 26 Nov 2017, 13:43

MAOR FOODBACK:
I did the tutorial from start to end, and I found some interesting points. Please try to find it too and say if you agree =D

Tutorial foodback:
sometimes hitting the space bar will skip a message (click okey)
The tutorial is too flashy sometimes: a fast flickering box, and a box that gets from screen to box size in 3 frames is too fast. (Maybe move 20 px/sec, so differently between different screen sizes?)
"The AI's are checked at a regular frequency (generally 4 times per second)" <= allways once every 250 ms right? when not?
Fit screen option debugger?
enter doesn't say next, while space bar doesn't, it's counter-intuitive to me (could be me though)
nodes don't snap into place (Well, not always, or I was just being stupid. Was at the part where you shuffle the nodes around the first time.) <= can anyone verify this?
enter doesn't always click next
Save shield takes more effort then I thought: you NEED to flee out of range to survive because of the attacking pattern. Could be somewhat difficult for a tutorial, but we'll see that.
I like the option to continue training vs go to MP directly =D awesome!

Tutorial II:
When hitting continue training, wouldn't it be more intuitive to go to the intermediate training directly instead of to the training menu?
I like the new balance: assault is better at mid vs shotgun (does seem much better then before to me)
At the MG tutorial, the nodes are locked in the wrong order. It can't be solved atm. <= can anyone verify this?

Tutorial III:
It does get to the training III directly from training II. This is inconsistent with my comment at the start of training II.
Starting is not an option before selecting the bot when I need to see what happens, but that's for the first time now. Was possible at the other levels so far.
Awesome focus fire tutorial!
Does a node snap to grid faster on PC than android?
Awesome subAI tutorial
Why only link to career and not link to campaign too?

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GFX47
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#65 » 26 Nov 2017, 17:08

Chilio wrote:MAOR FOODBACK


Image

Chilio wrote:sometimes hitting the space bar will skip a message (click okey)


I'll disable shortcuts on the tutorial next button.

Chilio wrote:"The AI's are checked at a regular frequency (generally 4 times per second)" <= allways once every 250 ms right? when not?


It may change in the future...

Chilio wrote:Fit screen option debugger?


Maybe later.

Chilio wrote:nodes don't snap into place (Well, not always, or I was just being stupid. Was at the part where you shuffle the nodes around the first time.) <= can anyone verify this?


I disabled it on priorities tutorial because I saw it was bothering new players during IRL playtests.
The AI in this mission is pretty small.

Chilio wrote:Save shield takes more effort then I thought: you NEED to flee out of range to survive because of the attacking pattern. Could be somewhat difficult for a tutorial, but we'll see that.


It's actually precisely the objective of this mission.
Isn't it clear enough?

Chilio wrote:When hitting continue training, wouldn't it be more intuitive to go to the intermediate training directly instead of to the training menu?


New players are directed to the introduction mission right away, without going through the menus.
The goal is to hook them right from the start.
So showing them the training chapters helps them discover the UI and the done/remaining missions.

Chilio wrote:At the MG tutorial, the nodes are locked in the wrong order. It can't be solved atm. <= can anyone verify this?


Nope, nodes are in the correct order.
If you link the right side node, you should complete the mission.

Chilio wrote:It does get to the training III directly from training II. This is inconsistent with my comment at the start of training II.


Only if you already completed intermediate chapter before.
The chapter transition messages are displayed only once.

Chilio wrote:Starting is not an option before selecting the bot when I need to see what happens, but that's for the first time now. Was possible at the other levels so far.


Each tutorial has its own scripted scenario, always for a reason.

Chilio wrote:Does a node snap to grid faster on PC than android?


The snap threshold is the same on both platforms but you may use a higher resolution on PC.

Chilio wrote:Why only link to career and not link to campaign too?


Because career is the real deal man!

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#66 » 26 Nov 2017, 19:00

GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:sometimes hitting the space bar will skip a message (click okey)

I'll disable shortcuts on the tutorial next button.

Was not the point: the thing is that the shortcuts seem to be inconsistent. Only enter for okey-buttons would be great I think (because space bar is used for starting the game). Or did you mean to make spacebar not do the start game? That would probably be better.
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:"The AI's are checked at a regular frequency (generally 4 times per second)" <= allways once every 250 ms right? when not?

It may change in the future...

Hmm, seems distracting...
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:nodes don't snap into place (Well, not always, or I was just being stupid. Was at the part where you shuffle the nodes around the first time.) <= can anyone verify this?

I disabled it on priorities tutorial because I saw it was bothering new players during IRL playtests.
The AI in this mission is pretty small.

It is, I was just writing everything down.
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:Save shield takes more effort then I thought: you NEED to flee out of range to survive because of the attacking pattern. Could be somewhat difficult for a tutorial, but we'll see that.

It's actually precisely the objective of this mission.
Isn't it clear enough?

Well, why would flee to long range be bad? (It works good enough in multyplayer ^^ )
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:When hitting continue training, wouldn't it be more intuitive to go to the intermediate training directly instead of to the training menu?

New players are directed to the introduction mission right away, without going through the menus.
The goal is to hook them right from the start.
So showing them the training chapters helps them discover the UI and the done/remaining missions.

Makes sense
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:At the MG tutorial, the nodes are locked in the wrong order. It can't be solved atm. <= can anyone verify this?

Nope, nodes are in the correct order.
If you link the right side node, you should complete the mission.

In that case the other way around would probably be better (much more efficient killing, probably losing less health, didn't test though).
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:It does get to the training III directly from training II. This is inconsistent with my comment at the start of training II.

Only if you already completed intermediate chapter before.

But I don't recall doing that ^^ could be me though.
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:Starting is not an option before selecting the bot when I need to see what happens, but that's for the first time now. Was possible at the other levels so far.

Each tutorial has its own scripted scenario, always for a reason.

Why was it possible to start the simulation before clicking away messages on the levels before this one?
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:Does a node snap to grid faster on PC than android?

The snap threshold is the same on both platforms but you may use a higher resolution on PC.

Makes sense, not really sure it's intuitive though (scaling it to the resolution could be better, your call :)
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:Why only link to career and not link to campaign too?

Because career is the real deal man!

:D

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#67 » 27 Nov 2017, 06:56

Chilio wrote:
GFX47 wrote:
Chilio wrote:"The AI's are checked at a regular frequency (generally 4 times per second)" <= allways once every 250 ms right? when not?

It may change in the future...

Hmm, seems distracting...


Well, AIs are checked 4 times per second on NORMAL speed.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#68 » 27 Nov 2017, 08:53

Kanishka wrote:
Chilio wrote:
GFX47 wrote:
It may change in the future...

Hmm, seems distracting...


Well, AIs are checked 4 times per second on NORMAL speed.


Well, AIs are checked 4 times per second on normal speed when viewed from an at rest frame of reference on the Earth
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#69 » 27 Nov 2017, 11:25

RC3 available: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1229&p=14389#p14389

Changelog from RC2:
  • improved scoring missions victory check: victory declared as soon as a player as a higher score than her opponent and all bots of the opponent are destroyed
  • fixed match lists not updating correctly
  • fixed auto deployed matches display
  • fixed filters being reset when modifying a node target
  • fixed game loading
  • fixed game over panel not showing on final campaign mission victory
  • added a new "duplicate selected node with links" button in AI editor
  • disabled tutorial next button shortcuts

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#70 » 27 Nov 2017, 17:00

Issues with RC3 that i've seen:
- there is now no reason to pick the MG. It's not good at anything.

The MG is so slow that there's nothing wrong with it being one of the strongest units at all ranges (excluding sniper at long, and perhaps SG at short range.)

The assault is now too powerful at long range. It's now so strong that there's a case for using it instead of the shotgun in many scenarios.

The changes to the AI editor and the ability to quickly jump to the next games at the end of a game are all good stuff!
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G.M. [rogueleader]
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#71 » 27 Nov 2017, 21:07

Ok so I dont know if this has already been asked, but for the team composition, is that the limit to one type of class per team(besides assault)?

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#72 » 27 Nov 2017, 22:46

G.M. [rogueleader] wrote:Ok so I dont know if this has already been asked, but for the team composition, is that the limit to one type of class per team(besides assault)?


Yes, that limit will most likely stay. It is there on purpose, for several reasons. Balancing, team comps, and long term goals being some of them.

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#73 » 27 Nov 2017, 22:50

@MrChris: I thought so too about the MG, but it is still the strongest at medium range. It does still seem useful. The shotgun fast moving is still a plus. But yes, the assaults are now really strong. My thinking was actually that in some cases it is better to use assault instead of the sniper (it being slow and all). Now the shotgun is mostly useful for distraction and hit and run.

@GFX47: Could you (or is there something I can do?) remove the 30 or so undeployed matches in my ranked list, as I still can't deploy them or remove them in the game.

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#74 » 27 Nov 2017, 23:00

Athelinde wrote:@GFX47: Could you (or is there something I can do?) remove the 30 or so undeployed matches in my ranked list, as I still can't deploy them or remove them in the game.


Could you try the reset multiplayer matches local storage button in the settings menu and tell me if it fixed your problem?

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#75 » 27 Nov 2017, 23:05

Thanks! That did the trick.
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mcompany
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#76 » 27 Nov 2017, 23:51

GFX47 wrote:
Athelinde wrote:@GFX47: Could you (or is there something I can do?) remove the 30 or so undeployed matches in my ranked list, as I still can't deploy them or remove them in the game.


Could you try the reset multiplayer matches local storage button in the settings menu and tell me if it fixed your problem?

Interesting, it fixed my bug as well (confirming my theory that is was a save data error)
Athelinde wrote:@MrChris: I thought so too about the MG, but it is still the strongest at medium range. It does still seem useful. The shotgun fast moving is still a plus. But yes, the assaults are now really strong. My thinking was actually that in some cases it is better to use assault instead of the sniper (it being slow and all). Now the shotgun is mostly useful for distraction and hit and run.

1. Machine gun is too slow to make use of being good in medium range (though, buffing the armor or bringing back pushbot seems like an easy way to fix it if machine gun has to be good at medium. But right now, I doubt it is more useful than having another assault
2. Sniper being "slow" is not a great excuse for it being bad, and I think sniper will stay as a great support bot
3. I see no use for shotgun right now, but it is too easy to judge imo

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#77 » 28 Nov 2017, 04:42

Wait, where are the details of the balance changes?
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#78 » 28 Nov 2017, 08:24

GFX47 wrote:Image


Earlier in this thread.

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TheGnoo
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Re: Alpha 11

Post#79 » 28 Nov 2017, 11:38

GFX, are these new bot stats a test or more like a definitive version ? Just so we know if we have to rebuild our AI now or in a few weeks !

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Re: Alpha 11

Post#80 » 28 Nov 2017, 12:00

It's the new balancing standard.
Although it may change again in the future if necessary.

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