How many bots are shooting your bot?

ultral
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How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#1 » 28 Mar 2017, 11:02

I was trying to implement simple tactic:

if (you are shoot by multiple bots) then {retreat}.

I find it difficult to implement this condition. Do you have some good way of finding how many bots are shooting your boot? Or maybe there is such a condition and I am just blind :)?

I have implemented something like:

If (there exists bot on medium range that is attacking you) and (there exists bot on long range that is attacking you) this means that multiple boots are attacking. But this is weak.. you guys know.

I was thinking about something like: tagging enemy bots at the beginning of the battle and then do some filtering based on tags. But is looks complicated (and I do not have group tags unlocked) so I would like to avoid tagging.

How do you guys do when you want to know if multiple boots are shooting your boot?

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Kanishka
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#2 » 28 Mar 2017, 12:00

If Self Is Attacking Enemy > If Any Self Not Attacking Enemy Is Attacking Self.
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pier4r
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#3 » 28 Mar 2017, 13:30

At the start of the match tagging enemy assaults in a way that at least one assault has the team tag E.

Then a web.

if assault not team teagged E and assault team tagged E shoot at you.
If assautl and shotgun shoot at you
if assault and sniper shoot at you
etc...

This is tedious so I implement it as soon as the situation arise from a fight and I lose due to it. In other words I am moved by defeats.
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ultral
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#4 » 28 Mar 2017, 14:13

Kanishka wrote:If Self Is Attacking Enemy > If Any Self Not Attacking Enemy Is Attacking Self.


This is also weak.. you are assuming that you are attacking one of the enemies that are attacking you and this might not be true.


pier4r wrote:At the start of the match tagging enemy assaults in a way that at least one assault has the team tag E.

Then a web.

if assault not team teagged E and assault team tagged E shoot at you.
If assautl and shotgun shoot at you
if assault and sniper shoot at you
etc...

This is tedious so I implement it as soon as the situation arise from a fight and I lose due to it. In other words I am moved by defeats.


Actually this is even wore and more complicated. You should tag all the assault bots EXCEPT one. Because if not then you can be attacked by two not tagged assault boots and you do not know about this. But as understand you have only 5 tags (A,B,C,D,E ?) and on some maps there can be more than 6 assault bots. So even this approach is not working in all the cases. And the web of conditions would be huge and not maintainable..

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LuBeNo
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#5 » 28 Mar 2017, 14:25

ultral wrote:But as understand you have only 5 tags (A,B,C,D,E ?) and on some maps there can be more than 6 assault bots.

With 5 tags you may identify 32 assault bots.
If done properly... ;)
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Kanishka
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#6 » 28 Mar 2017, 14:33

If Enemy Any SelfAttacking Is Attacking Self > If Enemy Any NotSelfAttacking Is Attacking Self
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pier4r
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#7 » 28 Mar 2017, 14:56

ultral wrote:
Actually this is even wore and more complicated. You should tag all the assault bots EXCEPT one. Because if not then you can be attacked by two not tagged assault boots and you do not know about this. But as understand you have only 5 tags (A,B,C,D,E ?) and on some maps there can be more than 6 assault bots. So even this approach is not working in all the cases. And the web of conditions would be huge and not maintainable..


Yes, if you want to count all you need binary counting (it is exposed somewhere in the forum, check the FAQ or search ). But then I observe that:

(a) in most cases there are 5-6 bots, so counting in sniper, mg, sg, 2 or 3 assaults. If there are more, either the enemy has no unlocked bot classes, or i decide to not care.
(b) tagging an assault bot with E and maybe with D (if I really want to be luxurious) can cover most of the cases.

and then I use the web (actually according to the defeats, and so far few games required more branches. I have like 5-6 combinations, not more).

So this is a (a, not THE) practical approach. If you want the ultra definitive approach that is super stable, first for me it is the wrong direction, second, I cannot help.

A nitpick. When you say "Actually this is even wore and more complicated.", while for an ultra precise approach the statement is partially correct, it is a bit rude if you consider where the approach leads.

If I want to be equally rude, I can say the following. You are this.

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ultral
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Pier4r Nvidia k1
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Not sure where is the "even worse". Of course what I wrote is a non sequitur. From the score does not follow a right argument, just I want to point out that if you are rude (or you are perceived so) for no reason, the others can do it too.
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Wozza
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#8 » 29 Mar 2017, 03:39

I use an approach pretty similar to what pier describes. I use up to 4 enemy team tags on assaults to identify them uniquely. On some maps the early ticks are very important so I don't always tag the assaults immediately.

I probably have something a bit more structured than the "web". Essentially I use the decision trees to ask 9 true/false questions about what is attacking and use the results to generate a threat score from 0 to 3 and then decide what action to take based on that score.

Its really painful to maintain / change and as strategies are refining at some point I will probably need to change it to have more variation based on which bot class is attacking.

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Kanishka
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#9 » 29 Mar 2017, 05:49

pier4r wrote:If I want to be equally rude, I can say the following. You are this.

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ultral
Stats | Stats by Period | Stats by Map | Score History | Matches Activity | Latest matches
League: Master (6)
Score: 1374 (max: 1394)
XP: 96047 (level 5)

Match Count: 145
Victories: 83 (57.24%)
Defeats: 51 (35.17%)
Draws: 11 (7.59%)

First Match: 2017-03-12 17:49:05
Last Match: 2017-03-27 21:27:45


I'm this

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Pier4r Nvidia k1
Stats | Stats by Period | Stats by Map | Score History | Matches Activity | Latest matches
League: Grand Master (7)
Score: 2033 (max: 2065)
XP: 4910182 (level 7)

Match Count: 4924
Victories: 3372 (68.48%)
Defeats: 1059 (21.51%)
Draws: 493 (10.01%)

First Match: 2016-11-05 13:08:55
Last Match: 2017-03-27 00:43:02


Not sure where is the "even worse". Of course what I wrote is a non sequitur. From the score does not follow a right argument, just I want to point out that if you are rude (or you are perceived so) for no reason, the others can do it too.


Gosh. You sound like PPS.
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pier4r
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#10 » 29 Mar 2017, 08:50

I clarified at the end of the post that using scores as an argument is a non sequitur (so it is an error), but that was an example of how one can sustain his argument in a rude way (saying "look I am better in the game, therefore your argument loses").

I thought that was clear.

That was in reply to the statement that what I described to help the guy was rejected as even worse, if it would be even worse, I wouldn't have that much of points. To me the "even worse" statement was a bit over the border since I was trying to help.
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ultral
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#11 » 29 Mar 2017, 10:51

pier4r wrote:That was in reply to the statement that what I described to help the guy was rejected as even worse, if it would be even worse, I wouldn't have that much of points. To me the "even worse" statement was a bit over the border since I was trying to help.


I did not want to be rude. If you felt offended I am sorry. I just wanted to say that it is not a solution that covers every corner case so in my opinion it is not solving problem.



LuBeNo wrote:
ultral wrote:But as understand you have only 5 tags (A,B,C,D,E ?) and on some maps there can be more than 6 assault bots.

With 5 tags you may identify 32 assault bots.
If done properly... ;)


You are correct of course. But maintaining this code would be a nightmare..



I think that I have found a better solution (although it is not without drawbacks) and I will happily share it with you:

If my bot want to check if it is attacked by multiple enemies it marks one of the attacking enemies with exclusive bot tag and then checks if there exists bot that is attacking my bot and it is not tagged.

The drawback is that you waste some time on tagging.. so you must use it carefully.

This tactic allow me to win with higher ranked player that had sniper bot on his disposal (I still do not have access to snipers) and enter the grand master league :).


(If someone is interested the match id is: 492345 although I won because enemy made more mistakes not because I was so good)
Last edited by ultral on 29 Mar 2017, 15:52, edited 2 times in total.

pier4r
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Re: How many bots are shooting your bot?

Post#12 » 29 Mar 2017, 10:58

ultral wrote:
I did not want to be rude. If you felt offended I am sorry. I just wanted to say that it is not a solution that covers every corner case so in my opinion it is not solving problem.



Fine ;) . In general I would suggest, when you ask for ideas, do not reject them flatly like "oh that's useless". Point out like "hmm, it may be practical but it does not cover all the cases as I wish". It is still a rejection, but better packed since the ones that reply to you are doing it to help. Of course I often fail to follow this type of advice too, so also I need to improve.

For the tagged solution, it is costly in time (and also aiming disruption), but if it works, why not.
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