Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

pier4r
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Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#1 » 19 Mar 2017, 22:29

I'm tired sorry, so I exploit you and your brain.

From an idea from mcompany some weeks ago, that was quite a change in my tactic (was not only an optimization of existing parts), I'm trying to focus fire on enemies that are already attacked by allies if there are no specific situations.

The problem is the following. At the start a bot attacks the enemy E1, another bot attacks the enemy E2, after one tick the bots see that the other enemy is attacked by the ally, so they quit attacking and the switch targets. And this goes in a loop for a while.

Now the problem happens when a bot knows that there is an enemy in range attacked by an ally. How can I solve this for the starting situation?

For the moment I will add a failsafe solution like "please shoot nevertheless" but that is a bit meh.
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harthag
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#2 » 19 Mar 2017, 22:36

My first thought is to assign leadership, so the leader bot's target gets priority. My next thought would be to intentionally delay one bot by one tick, maybe just have it tag self if not tagged, a one-time and one-tick action, so the other bot(s) start attacking a tick sooner so the delayed bot picks the target of the early bot

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Kanishka
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#3 » 20 Mar 2017, 05:07

pier4r wrote:I'm tired sorry, so I exploit you and your brain.

From an idea from mcompany some weeks ago, that was quite a change in my tactic (was not only an optimization of existing parts), I'm trying to focus fire on enemies that are already attacked by allies if there are no specific situations.

The problem is the following. At the start a bot attacks the enemy E1, another bot attacks the enemy E2, after one tick the bots see that the other enemy is attacked by the ally, so they quit attacking and the switch targets. And this goes in a loop for a while.

Now the problem happens when a bot knows that there is an enemy in range attacked by an ally. How can I solve this for the starting situation?

For the moment I will add a failsafe solution like "please shoot nevertheless" but that is a bit meh.


Half of my ASM got immobilized by this. Good to know that I'm not the only victim. :lol:
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Kanishka
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#4 » 20 Mar 2017, 05:08

harthag wrote:My first thought is to assign leadership, so the leader bot's target gets priority. My next thought would be to intentionally delay one bot by one tick, maybe just have it tag self if not tagged, a one-time and one-tick action, so the other bot(s) start attacking a tick sooner so the delayed bot picks the target of the early bot


Without Tags. I hate Tags. Pier is trying to get rid of Tags. I had Tags once. Long ago.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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mcompany
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#5 » 20 Mar 2017, 07:08

When I did do this, I actually still had the currently targeted enemy as a higher priority target. It was just that for new targets I had it choose a target that an Ally was attacking over other targets. However, I have since gone away from that idea. There was too many edge case situations where my bots would choose a bad target simply because it assumed that enemies that allies were attacking would die sooner, when there would be a different ignored enemy on the brink of death.

pier4r
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#6 » 20 Mar 2017, 08:29

Kanishka wrote:
harthag wrote:My first thought is to assign leadership, so the leader bot's target gets priority. My next thought would be to intentionally delay one bot by one tick, maybe just have it tag self if not tagged, a one-time and one-tick action, so the other bot(s) start attacking a tick sooner so the delayed bot picks the target of the early bot


Without Tags. I hate Tags. Pier is trying to get rid of Tags. I had Tags once. Long ago.


Well tagging for delay is not so bad. Tagging for keeping the target is more time consuming (in game and in maintenance)
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pier4r
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#7 » 20 Mar 2017, 08:30

mcompany wrote:When I did do this, I actually still had the currently targeted enemy as a higher priority target. It was just that for new targets I had it choose a target that an Ally was attacking over other targets. However, I have since gone away from that idea. There was too many edge case situations where my bots would choose a bad target simply because it assumed that enemies that allies were attacking would die sooner, when there would be a different ignored enemy on the brink of death.


Yes I have to work out this too, although I'm not yet on the point of giving up.

For the moment I solved this in the following way: if there is someone with low shield, this gets the priority, otherwise try to attack together with an ally. So at the start of a map, there is no "low shield" condition and my bots happily switch target.

Actually with the fail safe condition ("shoot please if you got a target even if that is not the same of your ally") it works but then in the mid game it works less.
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harthag
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#8 » 20 Mar 2017, 18:23

Kanishka wrote:Without Tags. I hate Tags. Pier is trying to get rid of Tags. I had Tags once. Long ago.

I wouldn't really consider this use of tags (it takes literally 1/4 of 1 second of the entire 5 minute match) in the same category ...

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#9 » 21 Mar 2017, 23:49

Like Morris, I tried this approach too, but it didn't worked to well. Giving priority to the enemy you are shooting at the moment is a solution. Another one could be, that you start to focus fire when the Enemy is fleeing. Whatever the reason for fleeing is, normally is worth keep shooting or start shooting.

If he's at low health .... after a burst the health is lower.
If enemy is fleeing to avoid damage ... You push him even more.
If he's fleeing to distract you ... You are distracted

Botique
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#10 » 22 Mar 2017, 10:29

I have built in this in my attacking routine.

In general, my attacking routine is mostly around 2 basics
1. Keep shooting whatever you shoot
2. Shoot the enemy which is very close to the "dead" - Health < 25% shield 0-25%
So these are 2 major priorities.

Then... everything else is answer to the question "what to shoot, when first 2 don't apply", and there is bunch of algorithms and priorities what to choose... not in particular order, but things like
"shoot close-range whatever" "shoot resource carring enemy" "if I am sniper, prioritize enemy sniper" "shoot the week ones" "shoot the mid-range sniper first (wrecks circle of death players who still rely on snipers there)" etc.
So one of these priorities is "shoot whatever ally is already shooting"... It is not the highest priority, but one to consider for my bots.

In general it would boil down to "If I have multiple targets to choose from, then shoot what ally is already shooting"

A little bit offtopic - some time ago I tried to play with "Shoot enemy who is shooting" -> I hoped by this approach my bots will make enemy bots more often to retreat and break attack, but this approach didn't worked well.

ultral
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#11 » 22 Mar 2017, 14:31

Botique wrote:In general, my attacking routine is mostly around 2 basics
1. Keep shooting whatever you shoot


I found that "Keep shooting whatever you shoot" turns out to be poor strategy for me.. I have been constantly loosing with "concentrate on one strategy". I kept shooting bot on long range when other enemies did a lot of damage in middle range :(.

Botique
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#12 » 22 Mar 2017, 14:58

ultral wrote:
I found that "Keep shooting whatever you shoot" turns out to be poor strategy for me.. I have been constantly loosing with "concentrate on one strategy". I kept shooting bot on long range when other enemies did a lot of damage in middle range :(.


Need to be careful about this, as smart bots can live on the boundary of short/long range, so you can end up dropping aim from long-range bot to switch to mid-range bot just to discover, that the bot moved out of mid-range and you have to start over again.
For example my bots tend to not try to keep shooting healthy retreating shotguns in long-range, otherwise you waset too much bullets on target you will unlikely get down.
Also depends on how you build your bots, if they try to finish of retreating bots, how much they are ready to take cucumbers into the face.
My bots are not the best, so take my advices with the healthy grain of salt.

pier4r
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Re: Brainstorming a little problem about attacking already attacked enemies

Post#13 » 22 Mar 2017, 16:05

ultral wrote:
Botique wrote:In general, my attacking routine is mostly around 2 basics
1. Keep shooting whatever you shoot


I found that "Keep shooting whatever you shoot" turns out to be poor strategy for me.. I have been constantly loosing with "concentrate on one strategy". I kept shooting bot on long range when other enemies did a lot of damage in middle range :(.


As boutique said, you need to prioritize according to the range. Could be complicated, but that is the fun.
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