Need help on finding different behaviours

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#21 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:03

TcT wrote:XD, simplify that a lot for easier maintain, looks like this before


Now it looks way better. Clean.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#22 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:04

Kanishka wrote:I'm sitting here thinking... "Those guys create AIs like that. I'm stuck with this."


Just break down every branch in a subroutine. Then small fixes.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

ConsciouS-0nE
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 740

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#23 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:07

Kanishka wrote:I'm sitting here thinking... "Those guys create AIs like that. I'm stuck with this."


Image

Subtrees?


Im quite ashamed i cant make proper ais because my ai list is 80+ and looks like a garbage.
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#24 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:09

http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

ConsciouS-0nE
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 740

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#25 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:28

Yeah i was planning,
Will take screenshots on the winning ones so wont forget them.

Got me stuck on situation i made,
I was choosing between delete all or not.

So i didnt delete anything but already started the work for generic ai rebuilding.

Which made me confused which to delete which and why to delete which.

But if ill decide to delete everything all the way, ill start again but im super lazy.
So ill delete everything but take screenshots just in case.
Would take me 3-10 days rebuilding.


My only problem is COD and barred spiral, i get farmed here when i deleted the original ones.
Kingmaker is stable when made some little tweaks.
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#26 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:41

You can just rename you old ais. "z old ai name" before deleting.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

ConsciouS-0nE
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 740

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#27 » 06 Feb 2017, 11:48

But from 'random maps' i want to cleanse my ai list and start building the ai for it.

The only negative effect is, im gonna disappear from leaderboards.
For 2 versions.

Does random maps remove the class limit?

So im gonna hibernate for 2 versions, take a break, but build the AI silently and get back to the game again.
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

User avatar
Kanishka
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 1421
Contact:

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#28 » 06 Feb 2017, 12:04

See, before Alpha 7, I was addicted to Tags and Sub-Trees. Now I find it better not to use them. Without Sub-Trees, it's easier to debug.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

Gladiabots Off-Topic Chat


My Stats: Kanishka_RN3;Kanishka_MiPad

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#29 » 06 Feb 2017, 12:23

Why I have no problems to debug with subtrees. What's yours?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
Kanishka
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 1421
Contact:

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#30 » 06 Feb 2017, 15:35

pier4r wrote:Why I have no problems to debug with subtrees. What's yours?


By the time I enter the Sub-Tree it usually exits it... So I don't which Nodes cause buggy behaviour.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

Gladiabots Off-Topic Chat


My Stats: Kanishka_RN3;Kanishka_MiPad

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#31 » 06 Feb 2017, 15:50

Ah for that:

watch the match fast forward or normal speed. Note the time when something happens that you want to check. Like 4:13.

Then re watch the game, fast forward up to 20 seconds before the noted time. So 4:33. Then play normal. Then 10 seconds before the event, pause. Select the bot. Make the debugger window big, very big (that you have to pan around). then go slowly watching the action over the bot that you want to debug.

as soon as you get the switch of action, pause. Pan to the debugger and see why the conditions do not apply.

It seems a tedious process but I found out it is pretty precise. And it teaches proper debugging.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

LELEZ
Script
Script
Posts: 19

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#32 » 06 Feb 2017, 18:59

TcT wrote:This is my method, I have 4 generic model for all classes ( retreat, attack, moving toward, scurity resource), 4 classes using same model. One or two AI(s) for each maps using those models. Each model saparated into 4 part for different classes. This is how it looks like. So I only get 15 AIs in my list. If you spot a better retreat or attack strategy, you just need to improve the model and All the Als get update. If you wanna specialise in defferent maps, you can change the individual maps' AI.


Thanks a lot for sharing your method, now i'm kinda "sure" a generic work isn't a bad idea, since i saw you're up there in the ladder and this proves the generic route is working :D

I already use "modules" and subtrees to call them, i have 6/7 subs that i call from my generic AI and it's working fine (i can see many errors by looking at my replays and i have some ideas on how to fix a couple).
I worked my way to the top league with that one generic AI but i'm still sniper-less so.. i need some XP

To be honest i can't watch the screens you posted because it's too small to get something out of that, i can see you use retreat attack and move modules (and dribbling? what's that term used for? to score points?) and by the example you gave from SPT map i get it, you're connecting the modules in a different way in each map given the starting positions it makes sense

As an exercise i'm trying to make my generic AI able to win all the practice levels without specific adjustments to maps.. helped me grow it in a sense, and it was enough to make it to the top league so well done to the dev with those tutorial missions, one by one they are ok and giving you the good ideas, but taken all together they are giving me a nice challenge.
By the way, i still haven't found an AI that can beat them all using assaults only without changing between maps, closest i can get is everything but ambidextrous mission, it's so different because they rush for balls and try to protect, that if i write some AI to beat that i lose on other maps then.. :)

Have you tried this challenge before? can one of your AIs beat all the levels using assaults only?

Thanks again for the reply, if there's a good way to open the screenshots you sent and to see them bigger please tell me :)

LELEZ
Script
Script
Posts: 19

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#33 » 06 Feb 2017, 19:03

ConsciouS-0nE wrote:
Ritter Runkel wrote:
The questions you asked are the right questions to get a good generic AI. Maybe you make two generic AIs to test different targeting or retreatment modules against each other.


Actually for me the questions he/she asked are everything to make 'a really good AI', i cant find something else in addition thats why i already made the questions for my paper work rebuilding my generic ai.


I have to thank you both! for the replies containing nice infos and for this "compliment".. I think i will share my first generic AI once i'm happy about it here in the forums so i hope to see you both there in my next post :)

And of course i take the challenge to reach top 20, i'm already up to the top league but now losing to random 1800 ELO players with way better AIs then me and with snipers! :D i'm poor level 4 with one single AI to rule them all ahahah

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#34 » 06 Feb 2017, 21:39

wrong thread
Last edited by pier4r on 07 Feb 2017, 09:30, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
Kanishka
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 1421
Contact:

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#35 » 07 Feb 2017, 05:09

pier4r wrote:Ah for that:

watch the match fast forward or normal speed. Note the time when something happens that you want to check. Like 4:13.

Then re watch the game, fast forward up to 20 seconds before the noted time. So 4:33. Then play normal. Then 10 seconds before the event, pause. Select the bot. Make the debugger window big, very big (that you have to pan around). then go slowly watching the action over the bot that you want to debug.

as soon as you get the switch of action, pause. Pan to the debugger and see why the conditions do not apply.

It seems a tedious process but I found out it is pretty precise. And it teaches proper debugging.


Thanks.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

Gladiabots Off-Topic Chat


My Stats: Kanishka_RN3;Kanishka_MiPad

ConsciouS-0nE
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 740

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#36 » 07 Feb 2017, 10:38

LELEZ wrote:
ConsciouS-0nE wrote:
Ritter Runkel wrote:
The questions you asked are the right questions to get a good generic AI. Maybe you make two generic AIs to test different targeting or retreatment modules against each other.


Actually for me the questions he/she asked are everything to make 'a really good AI', i cant find something else in addition thats why i already made the questions for my paper work rebuilding my generic ai.


I have to thank you both! for the replies containing nice infos and for this "compliment".. I think i will share my first generic AI once i'm happy about it here in the forums so i hope to see you both there in my next post :)

And of course i take the challenge to reach top 20, i'm already up to the top league but now losing to random 1800 ELO players with way better AIs then me and with snipers! :D i'm poor level 4 with one single AI to rule them all ahahah


Looking forward for you to beat me frequently soon, im not that good at this game, just alpha testing.


@papa pier
Made my decision, im gonna delete everything on alpha 8 testing.
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

Botique
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 96

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#37 » 07 Feb 2017, 17:36

I feel for you. I also at some point was disabled player. I use 4 generic AIs for 4 classes. And another 4 for one specific map.
I jad to fight against focus firing sniping opponents without such privilleges. It IS hard. But my anti sniper tactics was kiting them by constant avoidance to be targetted by sniper. Helped win some matches by confusing snipers.
You can live wery well without tags using opponent actions... like keep shooting dudes which you are shooting "attack self attacking enemy". Keep shooting fleeing enemies. And use advantage of shotgun who can move fast and has good shield. Use machinegun to create constant streams of cucumbers. Program different reactions on opponent bot classes.

ConsciouS-0nE
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 740

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#38 » 08 Feb 2017, 08:34

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=437&sid=f928eb6240e196c38c8bf5979dd1b138#p4808



Apparently the player
T800's retreat module

Image
Im not the best player, but atleast im something.I'm 8
Science is madness! 3:)

LELEZ
Script
Script
Posts: 19

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#39 » 08 Feb 2017, 11:39

ConsciouS-0nE wrote:Apparently the player
T800's retreat module

Image

But that does nothing other than stalling in a dance or losing are you sure? How is that a good way of handling the retreat?
It probably ends up replenishing your shield if it's placed after an if self shield low but i cant see it being so good

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Need help on finding different behaviours

Post#40 » 08 Feb 2017, 11:47

I guess he is joking.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Return to “Strategies”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest