Collection of helpfull Maxims

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Kanishka
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#21 » 12 Aug 2017, 13:51

Ritter Runkel wrote:Improve aiming :lol:

Let me try to rephrase in a Maxime:

  • First solve the tutorials and single player missions to get a basic AI
  • Improve retreating until you're at master league
  • Improve aiming when you reach GM
  • Improve harvesting and edge cases to get to the top 10
  • Don't try to optimize too much for specific maps, that only hides other bugs which needs to be fixed


I had completed all the steps and reached Global 11. Then I automatically dropped back.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#22 » 12 Aug 2017, 14:09

Kanishka, you could send some private matches and I will see if I see room for improvement ...

... Or you come to GM

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TheGnoo
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#23 » 13 Aug 2017, 03:44

I think that push mechanics are more important than harvesting in this meta. Milkhunter and Miojo are such a pain in the ass because they push me really hard.

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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#24 » 15 Aug 2017, 12:25

Pier A, [15.08.17 12:21]
moreover Arcueid is in GM, you don't have to counter him. Counter those that sucks your points

Pier A, [15.08.17 12:22]
I do not counter milkhunter, I counter those that takes 7+ points from me

Pier A, [15.08.17 12:22]
or even better, first those 10+, then those 7+


So then I improve being "safe" from those below me, and I can focus on those above me because my score will raise.
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#25 » 23 Aug 2017, 13:13

TheGnoo wrote:I think that push mechanics are more important than harvesting in this meta. Milkhunter and Miojo are such a pain in the ass because they push me really hard.


Agreed. The forth should be: Improve pushing mechanics to get to the top 10

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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#26 » 17 Sep 2017, 09:25

One thing I noticed is that some tactics (that are time consuming to implement if one has to rearrange its AI nodes) that are quite effective are implemented by some players that dominates and the others will adapt only very slowly (I am one of the latter).

So it can be that a successful tactical procedure was discovered already in February 2017 and it gets replicated by the top20 only in August 2017.

I think this is due to the fact that if the one "dominating" is not always there farming a lot of points, there is not much reward to develop a counter - that takes time - since the points lost are a little. In this period, for example, I do not care much if Miojo or Milkhunter beat me because I focus first on those sucking more than 7-9 points from me. If I would encounter only Miojo or Milkhunter I would develop against them. Instead the omnipresent Chris is the enemy.

The moral of the story is: in GM the average level become slowly more and more higher because more players implement successful tactics that before were used by few.

So if you are new and you got pounded, don't get discouraged because in GM one is against tactics that incorporated evolutions over months, that one needs to digest first before being able to handle them.

And, I would say, the guys floating (floating, not hit and fall) around 2100+ now are some months "in the future" in terms of tactics implementation compared to the rest of GM.
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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#27 » 17 Sep 2017, 10:52

pier4r wrote:One thing I noticed ...


That's an interesting point of view, I second that. Also when you're one of the top three players you don't have to slapped that many matches because you loose seldom.i remember when I was number one, I analyzed every match I lost. Now it's the same what you wrote, if milk, LuBeNo or miojo beat me and as long as it's not an obvious bug ... I don't care. First I have to get stable against buzz, Chris, you and some others.

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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#28 » 17 Sep 2017, 11:47

Yes and it makes sense because the elo foster this (and that's reasonable I would say). Since we know that if I beat the first one it does not mean that I beat all the others (we remember buzz beating the top1, ritter, (and me) to then losing against all the others), then it is better to fix problems against those that inflicts too big elo changes and then against those that inflict less.

Moreover it is also true that if I never lose against those that takes 7 or more points from me, my score will raise and then those at the top will be those taking 7 or more points from me. So they will deserve my attention.
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#29 » 29 Sep 2017, 09:35

Sometimes some tactics get heavily countered and then disappear. Then the new tactics los the optimizations against those and so when the 'old' tactics reappear, bring havoc.

That is one point that let me think that it is very unlikely to get an ai that is foolproof against all the others (unless it gets over 500+ nodes)
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#30 » 01 Oct 2017, 20:23

In this period (and with my current pace, I guess for long time) I am focusing to damage the enemy as much as I can, or push him away, rather than collecting resources. I am losing a lot of points but it is super fun!

I recommend it! Also this is due to the experience with miojo and milkhunter, that pushed me so many times that I decided to try the same.

Once I have a good "I will damage you" overall tactic, I can see to detect the situations where I have field advantage to collect resources at once.
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Ritter Runkel
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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#31 » 01 Oct 2017, 21:07

pier4r wrote: I am focusing to damage the enemy as much as I can, or push him away, rather than collecting resources. I am losing a lot of points but it is super fun!


I do it the same way. Once my pushing is good enough I can optimize my harvesting part. Since that it's more about getting the opponent out of the field.

Focusing at harvesting also hides some failures you make in your retreatment and your pushing. I would say that

<Maxime>
you can't optimize your push when you collect.
</Maxime>

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Re: Collection of helpfull Maxims

Post#32 » 01 Oct 2017, 21:26

yes if someone collects one has less firepower available, it is like the bot is not there to fight (unless the bot is there to collect damage)
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