Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Vote for your favorite map!

Poll ended at 21 Jul 2017, 15:17

showdown
2
2%
Behind enemy lines
3
3%
Queenmaker
1
1%
Going shopping
0
No votes
Close combat
1
1%
Double Bind
3
3%
Street Basketball
4
4%
BattleShip
5
5%
Dominance
8
9%
Steal the bacon
2
2%
Convoy Apocalypse
3
3%
Siren’s Peril
5
5%
Speedrun
2
2%
The big harvest
2
2%
Teamwork
1
1%
Finishing line
3
3%
Position of Power
0
No votes
Battleflied
4
4%
Flanking
9
10%
cross worlds
2
2%
last stand
1
1%
invaders
1
1%
unfair
3
3%
Traitor
2
2%
Sleepy #1
1
1%
Sleepy #2
1
1%
All for one
2
2%
The Grid
2
2%
Strategic Thinking
5
5%
Fight for the Waterhole
3
3%
Lake Rushtown
7
8%
New Seven Wonders
3
3%
 
Total votes: 91

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#81 » 21 Jul 2017, 18:32

80 votes, so only 16 voters, if every one respect the 5votes, but i dont think so.

pier4r
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#82 » 21 Jul 2017, 18:51

I gave 4 because I got pissed and I started to clean all the "nice to have" votes.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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LuBeNo
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#83 » 21 Jul 2017, 20:03

Flanking and Dominance got even now. Lake Rushtown only one behind. Could you consider to include them without multiplayer.
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GFX47
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#84 » 21 Jul 2017, 20:44

Not before 9.2 and votes are not over.

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Revenge
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#85 » 21 Jul 2017, 21:52

I think we can see which map is showing... dominance.

Ein Stein
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#86 » 22 Jul 2017, 04:49

harthag wrote:
LuBeNo wrote:
Ein Stein wrote:That's because asymmetric maps are imbalanced. When both sides play correctly, there's one side who will always win.

I don't get the reason for this.

I agree that every symmetric map is balanced, because of math. But there can also be balanced asymmetric maps. It would be challenging to (a) balance and (b) play. Who do you think will win in Sleepy 1 and Traitor?
Define "play correctly" ... ?

I'm with LuBeNo on this one. And I would really like to see a non-syetrical map layout

Think of tic-tac-toe. The first player always wins if both players make the best moves.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

harthag
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#87 » 22 Jul 2017, 05:12

Ein Stein wrote: best moves.

???

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Kanishka
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#88 » 22 Jul 2017, 05:45

Ein Stein wrote:
harthag wrote:
LuBeNo wrote:I don't get the reason for this.

I agree that every symmetric map is balanced, because of math. But there can also be balanced asymmetric maps. It would be challenging to (a) balance and (b) play. Who do you think will win in Sleepy 1 and Traitor?
Define "play correctly" ... ?

I'm with LuBeNo on this one. And I would really like to see a non-syetrical map layout

Think of tic-tac-toe. The first player always wins if both players make the best moves.


I disagree. Best possible moves always results in a draw. In all games.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Ein Stein
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#89 » 22 Jul 2017, 06:24

Kanishka wrote:
Ein Stein wrote:
harthag wrote:Define "play correctly" ... ?

I'm with LuBeNo on this one. And I would really like to see a non-syetrical map layout

Think of tic-tac-toe. The first player always wins if both players make the best moves.


I disagree. Best possible moves always results in a draw. In all games.

Okay, I've seen your comments, and here's what I've found. Some games will lead to a draw, while others will always lead to a win-lose situation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.

harthag
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#90 » 22 Jul 2017, 07:44

Ein Stein wrote:...Think of tic-tac-toe...

So you're comparing Gladiabots to a solved game like tic-tac-toe? Not a complex one, like chess (unsolved so far, despite supercomputers attempting to solve it)? I think Gladiabots possibilities for AI complexity approaches, if not surpasses, chess. Until it's completely solved (which I doubt will ever happen), it's safe to assume that any strategy (if equal numbers of bots are involved) that could be faced could also be countered. So there is no unwinnable situation based solely on non-symetrical map setup

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LuBeNo
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#91 » 22 Jul 2017, 09:50

GFX47 wrote:Not before 9.2 and votes are not over.

Sounds promising. Thank you.

How much effort is it for you to create a map? Could the community help you by creating an xml or json?
For private games the map pool could be much bigger.
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LuBeNo
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#92 » 22 Jul 2017, 09:54

Ein Stein wrote:That's because asymmetric maps are imbalanced. When both sides play correctly, there's one side who will always win.

I really want to always loose asymmetric maps against Ein Stein. :D ;) No offence meant.
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GFX47
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#93 » 22 Jul 2017, 11:51

LuBeNo wrote:
GFX47 wrote:Not before 9.2 and votes are not over.

Sounds promising. Thank you.

How much effort is it for you to create a map? Could the community help you by creating an xml or json?
For private games the map pool could be much bigger.


It's actually not that time consuming.
It's just that I have to implement the distinction between ranked and unranked maps.

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LuBeNo
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#94 » 22 Jul 2017, 12:33

Would be great to have around 20-30% of the best maps of the map creation contests in game for unranked.
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mcompany
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#95 » 22 Jul 2017, 20:53

Kanishka wrote:
Ein Stein wrote:Think of tic-tac-toe. The first player always wins if both players make the best moves.


I disagree. Best possible moves always results in a draw. In all games.

This is correct

That said, I understand what Ein is trying to say, and I agree with him. An asymmetrical map is by no means guaranteed to be balanced to have an equal or at least similar chance to win from either side, and there is no way I could be happy with risking putting in such a map without playing on it when there are still other maps that are just as valid. And when we are risking our ranking for those maps, I don't think it is a good idea

Although, can I request that votes Iike this in the future first have a release that includes all of these maps to test against (or even a version with only the community made test maps) to have an informed decision for asymmetrical maps, because otherwise, I think Meeting Point with be the only asymmetrical map in the game, ever

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#96 » 22 Jul 2017, 21:53

Meeting point is asymetric?

mcompany
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#97 » 22 Jul 2017, 21:55

Yep, no matter how you look at it, the bases are not symetric to the starting player positions, and can't be made symetric based on the design Gfx is trying to go for

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#98 » 22 Jul 2017, 22:06

I think you do a mistake.

Following what you said barred spiral is also asymmetric.


Do not forget there is 2 type of symmetry: axial and central.
Meeting point and barred spiral are central

mcompany
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#99 » 22 Jul 2017, 22:12

Actually, no I checked that as well. Barred is symmetrical, but unless you are able to draw in an image of how Meeting Point has axial or central symmetry (particularly when adding in the instantiation order), you are wrong

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Multiplayer map creation contest #3

Post#100 » 22 Jul 2017, 22:51

So i draw a meeting point on paint and done a rotation of 180° with the central point as the middle ressource
Meeting point symmetry central.png


Do you see something asymmetric?

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