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Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 01 Sep 2018, 18:24
by mumpsimus
After running a moderately successful test tournament for this type of event, here's my proposal:

It would be fun to have a relatively big tournament sometime soon, open to as many folks as would like to participate, and with some bragging rights for the top 3 finalists.

I thought it would be fun (and eliminate some of the guesswork) to loosely follow the format of the FIFA world cup. So 32 teams start, in 8 groups of 4 that play round robin within the group, after which number 1 and 2 of each group advance to the single elimination phase, number 1s matched to number 2s of another group (minimizing the chances they meet any teams they already played in the group stage before the final.)

I would propose that it's open sign up, but the top half or three quarters of the available spots go automatically to the highest ranked players that sign up for the tournament (as of a particular date, this would maybe make the most sense to base on the final scores of a season.) And have the rest of the sign ups (should the total exceed 3) play play off matches to secure the remaining spot. (Everyone would have to confirm with the organizers through discord, and matches that aren't played within 24 hours of becoming available would be automatic losses.)

To determine the groups I wrote a little deterministic script, available here, with the output it generated for the test tournament:

https://gist.github.com/thisfred/49b76f ... f52eb7b629

We'll pick a new random seed soon before we know the input rankings just to avoid any suspicion about the random group selection. In fact, I'll take the last word in the first reply to this post. ;)

Thoughts? Would you participate, do you think it would be fun if GFX semi officially sanctioned this tournament and made the gold, silver and bronze stats page badges available, or something like them? Should each match up be a single game, or best of 3?

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 01 Sep 2018, 19:43
by pier4r
So, first of all better a tournament that works than nothing.

Said that.
If you want to really minimize luck, best of many is better. (see http://pier4r.wikidot.com/pierworks:art ... formatcomp )
If wouldn't be a pain with manual deployments, I would go for best of 11 or 13 just to be sure.

When I did my tournaments back in 2017 (september and october) it was "on all maps" so was like best of 11.

With best of many on random maps, the tournament format doesn't matter much as it is often the case that the best people pass. Notice that best != leaderboard rank. As strong players overall may meet their nemesis in the tournament.

The real pain though, that I observe in all the tournaments and in which mine had strong clauses to avoid too long delays, is that a certain schedule should be enforced. Not too tight, but neither open ended.


TL;DR: better to have a tournament that proceeds without long delays than no tournament or a dead one. Then it can be repeated often if it works.


Of course I won't participate as I have barely the time to play every now and then.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 01 Sep 2018, 22:03
by mumpsimus
Ok, "then" is the random seed. :)

The automatic forfeits after 24 hours should address your concern. There is no way people are going to be on board with best of 11, let alone 13 (or at least I won't be, because it means playing hundreds of matches.) I think best of 3 would already be a stretch, and should maybe only be applied in the elimination stage. There are maps that favor some AIs over others, but on the whole, the better an AI is, the less that tends to matter, so I'm not *that* concerned about luck playing too big a role, at least not for the final standings.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 01 Sep 2018, 23:15
by GFX47
I'm totally up for it! It would be a nice way to end a season.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 07:20
by mumpsimus
Alright then, I volunteer to organize, probably at the end of this season, unless there's a compelling reason to wait longer, which would also be fine.

I'd like to announce when that is, so let me know when you know, in case people really care and want to improve their ranking just in time.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 08:10
by pier4r
Yes the hundred of matches is a problem unless gfx implements something like "challenge opponent X times" , the opponent then replies to the challenge once and the game deploys X times with the same ai. Then one has to watch the games that is not a problem imo, even hundreds of them.

And I disagree where the best ai can often wins. That is not true when the strength is pretty close so one has like 60% win rate only.

But again, better than nothing.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 10:21
by GFX47
I'd go for best of 3.
The "luck" factor is kinda cool as it makes tournament a different challenge than ranked matches.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 11:12
by ElvenMonk
GFX47 wrote:I'd go for best of 3.
The "luck" factor is kinda cool as it makes tournament a different challenge than ranked matches.

+1 here. Both bo12 and bo1 sound kind of extreme to me.

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 13:14
by pier4r
Yes if one wants variation giving also some chances of comeback then bo3 is neat

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 02 Sep 2018, 18:01
by mumpsimus
best of 3 it is!

Re: Proposed: Gladiabots World Cup 2018

Posted: 25 Sep 2018, 06:15
by mumpsimus