Page 4 of 4

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 13 Oct 2018, 19:38
by pier4r
Bhead denies another win of bockwurst

20th best score with active deployment.
3063 176602 B_head
3047 392426 Bockwurst
2830 434900 jakwins
2784 443045 Rainin
2734 389367 RitterRunkel
2715 219108 milkhunter
2455 393328 elvenmonky2
2380 357645 aoi
2335 278755 mumpsimus
2304 2099 pier4r nvidia k1
2147 251352 dh!
2142 118911 mrchris
2098 482868 botmanbot
2081 436205 Ardent Dawn
2079 384255 gtresd
2062 439302 tytalus
2035 422985 Gilberreke
2008 411652 thecommonpigeon
1984 533495 GladioTech
1975 278271 tomcat_wrk

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 27 Oct 2018, 21:17
by pier4r
Bhead two wins in two weeks, plus higher and higher scores (but this is to be expected from AIs that dominates mostly every other ghost). Rainin entering the top 3

20th best score with active deployment.
3114 176602 B_head
3100 392426 Bockwurst
2932 434900 jakwins
2847 393328 elvenmonky2
2841 443045 Rainin
2654 389367 RitterRunkel
2365 118911 mrchris
2345 357645 aoi
2312 2099 pier4r nvidia k1
2302 384255 gtresd
2206 251352 dh!
2155 371487 Joni ja pojat
2093 518139 Capeciucc
2090 422985 Gilberreke
2079 482868 botmanbot
2077 439302 tytalus
1945 524000 sparr

20th best score with active deployment.
3151 176602 B_head
3130 392426 Bockwurst
3123 443045 Rainin
2911 434900 jakwins
2707 219108 milkhunter
2604 389367 RitterRunkel
2587 365401 Gladiabots
2370 384255 gtresd
2348 357645 aoi
2267 251352 dh!
2160 422985 Gilberreke
2140 518139 Capeciucc
2050 377728 viva2
1964 411652 thecommonpigeon

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 03 Nov 2018, 22:58
by pier4r
Jakwins breaks through again (2nd win). Gladiabots (again likely a second account of those strong players) goes through GM like butter. Rainin and Bhead keeping bockworst at bay. Not even top3 ! Milkhunter doesn't seem engaged much in beta 2.2

Other active players for the moment have hard time passing 2400. The game is harder than ever for most of the players!

20th best score with active deployment.
3195 434900 jakwins
3151 443045 Rainin
3130 176602 B_head
3107 392426 Bockwurst
2951 365401 Gladiabots
2367 357645 aoi
2350 384255 gtresd
2236 251352 dh!
2195 518139 Capeciucc
2183 278755 mumpsimus
2081 210335 jpfoucault007
2072 422985 Gilberreke
1974 377728 viva2
1972 435461 KiNASuki

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 21:50
by pier4r
While the beta 2.2 is active, the beta 3 got its first batch of release candidates that changed the game radically. To avoid exploding complexity and executions going too slow, in beta 3 the amount of nodes per AI will be limited as well as the amount of evaluated nodes at runtime. If the runtime limit is breached the ai is idle for the tick.

This means that players that have good but not too computationally heavy ais have a chance to farm all the ones that are heavy. Indeed Gtresd and, in smaller amount Gilberreke, exploited this possibility farming ghosts of opponents that before they couldn't beat. Gtresd had a meteoric rise as almost all the 2500+ AIs were computationally heavy and skipped many ticks in idle mode. His AI mercilessly farmed ghost after ghost to reach 3400. Meanwhile the top players adapted their AIs to let them run without stuttering but they were not fast enough to farm Gtresd back. Gtresd used the occasion and snatched the first place. Not a feat that he was used to do until now, we will see if he will continue to be in the top3.

Another news on discord. Gladiabots is likely the (or one of the) first account of Jakwins. he already was detected in the Nth best score in January 2018 . This also means that when both jakwins and Gladiabots appear in the top3, one of them get skipped and I pick the 4th player.
Anyway over 2000 the activity was lower this time.

20th best score with active deployment.
3364 384255 gtresd
3254 434900 jakwins
2970 365401 Gladiabots - jakwins
2436 357645 aoi
2263 422985 Gilberreke
2201 251352 dh!
2194 278755 mumpsimus
2067 572564 sephirot
2061 377728 viva2

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 18 Nov 2018, 22:36
by pier4r
Beta 2.2 was substituted during the week by beta 3 and beta 3.1
Top players started to adapt again, although a different paces. Bhead played a bit and then stopped, we may see him later. Milkhunter pushed a bit more. jakwins adapted a bit and then stopped too (again, hopefully just a pause). Bockwurst slowly readapting.

Gtresd, that pushed hard during the beta 3 RC making use of stuttering opponents - having beta 2.2 AIs too big for beta 3 due to the new node and execution limits - seems not interested to see how the other cacthed up in the meanwhile. Other players that struggled a bit during beta 2.2 (mumpsimus) got better, we will see if they hold.

Moreover GFX introduced a pruning on the ghosts. Now, if I am not mistaken, only one version of a ghost with the same AI (n1) is generated, all the other deployments with the same AI won't change anything and a ghost start "living" with the score of the first deployment. This should have a positive effect on resets, unless people intentionally game the system (but that can always happen).

Back to the scores. Ritter, also due to the inactivity of other players, snatches a top3 after long time and the same does mumpsimus. Very close to each other. New names appear on the list though. DH! , a strong player in the past, is still not completely adapted to the new features. I expect him to grow stronger.

20th best score with active deployment.
3361 443045 Rainin
2586 389367 RitterRunkel
2583 278755 mumpsimus
2372 357645 aoi
2196 572564 sephirot
2184 251352 dh!
2120 494602 SpartacJesus
2119 422985 Gilberreke
2113 377728 viva2
2067 524512 RoboAI
2059 546275 Franyo
1960 411652 thecommonpigeon

n1: that is, even position of the nodes count to determined the same ai. But it is already much better than before.

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 22:58
by pier4r
Beta 3.x

Low activity for me. I wish to find the time to play but at least I am happy if I can keep up with forum, stats and some chat as enough information are out there even without playing. Well it is ok as many interests compete for the little free time that I have. For now Gladiabots is a nice luxury in terms of time.

Back to the stats! So beta 3 is running and GFX cleaned up also the ghost population. In short he is checking, server side (and maybe one day it will happen also client side, to avoid too much load on the servers), the md5 checksum of an AI (as it is shown, not as it is interpreted). This already helps a lot to prune plenty of ghosts. Now for every Ai that has an unique md5 checksum the lowest score ghost is kept and then only that ghost will go on improving or being disabled (losing at least 50 score points after having played at least 5 games).

The point being that with beta 3 a lot of ghosts, even very strong ones, from the previous gladiabots versions got weakened (or straight broken) due to the nodes execution limit. The limit is badly needed if the game cannot be optimized due to lack of manpower, otherwise even matches in fast forward looks like in slow motion on some systems that are still quite powerful.
Therefore with all those weakened ghosts that often have high scores, gaining score is relatively easy. But no worries! The more players play, the more those ghosts gets farmed and disabled. For example Good Bot's ghosts, that were distributed in the range 2000-2800 almost entirely disappeared having lost tons of matches. Anyway until the ghosts gets farmed some higher scores are easier to reach, then slowly the game will revert back to an harder mode where gaining 100 points more, and holding them, will require quite some efforts in GM.

Hopefully once the non-beta3 compatible ghosts gets disabled by active players there will be also a reset in scores (that is: season 2 ends), and then Gm will be hard again as it was at the start of season 2. For hard I mean: a lot of players will have hard time to stay in GM without being quickly demoted. That is also the scope of GM, otherwise the leagues wouldn't matter much.

Until then, let's see how plenty of players will move to the 3000 barrier (while before the barrier for the majority of players was 2400-2500 and it was slowly going down to 2200)

20th best score with active deployment.
3152 219108 milkhunter
3072 392426 Bockwurst
2945 572564 sephirot
2691 357645 aoi
2687 278755 mumpsimus
2315 251352 dh!
2252 494602 SpartacJesus
2075 546275 Franyo
2065 564813 vanadio
2047 422985 Gilberreke
2041 477652 voxelPhreak
2009 377728 viva2
1982 132551 IRRbertPC

3288 572564 sephirot
3116 392426 Bockwurst
3109 357645 aoi
2698 278755 mumpsimus
2403 251352 dh!
2182 567796 TreeTime
2171 546275 Franyo
2127 422985 Gilberreke
2108 436205 Ardent Dawn
2102 564813 vanadio
2076 411652 thecommonpigeon

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 16:56
by pier4r
Beta 3.x

Once again: Low activity for me. I wish to find the time to play but at least I am happy if I can keep up with forum, stats and some chat as enough information are out there even without playing.

It seems that the players that improved a lot thanks to beta 3 in terms of score difference from reference players (example: bockwurst) see aoi, gtresd, mumpsimus and others; those player can keep themselves pretty close to the top compared to some weeks ago. For example some weeks ago aoi was 2400 and Bockwurst was over 3000. Now Bockwurst is 3200 but aoi is around 3000. From 600+ to 200 points of difference.
This may be due to still non-beta3 compatible ghosts in the range 2400-3000, that are relatively easily farmed by a top actual AIs, but could also be that top players converting to beta 3 didn't find yet some subtle but crucial details that distance them greatly from all the others GM active players. Aside from Rainin. Rainin is pretty stable at 3400. 3400 was touched by gtresd as first strong player farming all the non-beta3-compatible ghosts but since then a lot of time passed and others adapted. Still he keeps being hard to beat, so hat off for Rainin at the moment.
Side note: Gtresd, although falling from 3400, still keeps a very respectable 3200. So not far from the top. Before he was 2400/2500 and the top was 3000+.

The unranked mode is now more competitive than before (before, for those in Master and GM I believe, it was quite relaxed, with plenty of opponents from very low leagues) and it may impact the activity in ranked or also the quality of ranked ghosts as those can be tested "without leaving independent ghosts" in unranked. We will see. The expectation is that the higher the league, the higher (although only a little) the quality of the ghost being released by a player after every unranked session.

Sephirot (from Russia, see Discord) confirms themselves a top player as it can hold jakwins, bockwurst, milhunter and other players that - see the hall of fame - earned to be called "strong" ones.

In general, and this was true since the last two or three weeks, all the leagues have plenty of ghosts competitive enough for their score while GM has still some sort of gap.
Until 2300 there are enough competitive ghosts. Between 2400 and 3000 there are several ghosts that are still not beta3 compatible. Around 2800 there are again enough beta3 compatible ghosts.

This will be interesting as when those 2400-3000 partially-broken-ghosts will be farmed and disabled that gap will be harder to climb, potentially leaving two isolated player groups for a while. Anyway that will take time as there few players that are going through that range. One of this is dh! at the moment (DH! was strong in the past, they are still adapting since the introduction of ghosts).

Also some info about the ghosts (as GFX improved a lot also the ghosts stats page).
The point that the gap 2400-3000 seems easier than expected is confirmed by the fact that a lot of ghosts beta3 compatible (but released in previous versions) that were around 2400-2700 climbed as well without receiving any update.
Sollniss ghost from 2300 is stable at 2900.
Tortuga ghost from 2600 or 2700 is stable at 3000.
Bhead from 3100 is stable at 3300.
RitterRunkel from 2700 is stable at 3100.

3458 443045 Rainin
3249 572564 sephirot
3213 384255 gtresd
3194 392426 Bockwurst
3049 357645 aoi
2987 278755 mumpsimus
2904 393328 elvenmonky2
2460 494602 SpartacJesus
2341 251352 dh!
2173 616613 KaesebrotKiller
2142 411652 thecommonpigeon
2122 546275 Franyo
2068 564813 vanadio

3453 443045 Rainin
3325 434900 jakwins
3322 572564 sephirot
3272 392426 Bockwurst
3240 219108 milkhunter
2450 251352 dh!
2239 616613 KaesebrotKiller
2177 564813 vanadio
2125 377728 viva2
2023 568738 M4L4

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 13 Jan 2019, 13:23
by pier4r
Beta 3.2

Once again: Low activity for me. I wish to find the time to play but at least I am happy if I can keep up with forum, stats and some chat as enough information are out there even without playing.

From mid december to today we had the grandmasters slow down a bit. This shows how great asynchronous mode and ghosts are as one may play alone in a day without noticing as long as there are enough ghosts.

Rainin reached the 3500 barrier (not that with ghosts barriers mean much, as points are bound to flow in without periodical resets, see n1) but the others still have to catch up. Some relatively old (weeks or months old) ghosts still survive pretty well despite all the new awesome filters from beta 2 and beta 3.

Ritter runkel, tortuga, sollniss, bhead ghosts are all 200 or more points higher than the deploy score, hovering around 3000 to 3400. Other ghosts are doing good in the 2200 range , like the one from tct (past strong player that was active for a short time) and also mine that have a shameful 1400 nodes - too many really.

Vanadio, a new committed player, organized a 30 nodes tournament and some master/grandmasters are trying to push as high as possible ais with few nodes. Trying to improve the rating efficiency against the node count. Something I will do too if I will get the time. I think limiting oneself with 300 nodes in total seems quite enough to keep oneself in the top league for the moment.

Further notes. gtrest after farming everyone once beta 3 RC was released (a release that made many top AIs weaker) is not yet stabilized. Going down slowly from 3400 to 3000. Although I believe he can hold the current 3000 to fight upwards again.
Other top players are not that active so sephirot collects victories and milhunter reaches miojo /good bot for the most wins.

The range 2400-3000 still has many broken ghosts that are slowly deactivated by players active in that range.

n1: post 160 and later viewtopic.php?f=7&t=493&start=140#p17299

"2018-12-15" and "2018-12-21"
active deployments 20th score from players with minimum max elo over 2000
3480 443045 Rainin
3347 572564 sephirot
3005 278755 mumpsimus
2981 357645 aoi
2687 251352 dh!
2235 377728 viva2
2156 616613 KaesebrotKiller
2078 564813 vanadio

"2018-12-22" and "2018-12-28"
active deployments 20th score from players with minimum max elo over 2000
3274 219108 milkhunter
2990 357645 aoi
2767 251352 dh!
2250 646082 SparrowHawk
2210 377728 viva2
2143 564813 vanadio

"2018-12-29" and "2019-01-04"
active deployments 20th score from players with minimum max elo over 2000
3335 572564 sephirot
2878 251352 dh!
2606 494602 SpartacJesus
2318 646082 SparrowHawk
2240 564813 vanadio
2198 567796 TreeTime
2129 616613 KaesebrotKiller
2081 377728 viva2

"2019-01-05" and "2019-01-11"
active deployments 20th score from players with minimum max elo over 2000
3330 572564 sephirot
3090 384255 gtresd
2923 251352 dh!
2308 646082 SparrowHawk
2277 564813 vanadio
2081 377728 viva2

Re: Unavoidable Tournament: Nth best score.

Posted: 30 Mar 2019, 16:33
by pier4r
I have to update this but as a note (also for my future self).

Until the former beta 4 (now 1.0) release candidate is not stable, just discard everything that is not a resolution engine 34 (stable beta 3.2). This due to the RC nature of the matches (changes in the game relatively often) plus the broken kfactor bug appearing every now and then in the leaderboard. Making scores over 2000 less "hard".