Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Captain Spock (Castlevania)
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Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#1 » 26 Feb 2017, 05:44

Sometimes my bots fire not a single bullet just because the enemy is on the edge of my range. The interruption of reloading make battle looks stupid, and its also boring to taking advantage on that. Please fix it.

Another option is to provide a condition about the percentage of reloading. But as I said, I really don't like this kind of micro-controlling. The exciting things are those such as counting the enemy and resources, which I see on the to-do list.

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Kanishka
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#2 » 26 Feb 2017, 05:50

Castlevania wrote:Sometimes my bots fire not a single bullet just because the enemy is on the edge of my range. The interruption of reloading make battle looks stupid, and its also boring to taking advantage on that. Please fix it.

Another option is to provide a condition about the percentage of reloading. But as I said, I really don't like this kind of micro-controlling. The exciting things are those such as counting the enemy and resources, which I see on the to-do list.


That's why people make dancers and anti-dancers. You must adapt. :twisted:
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mcompany
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#3 » 26 Feb 2017, 06:19

Kanishka wrote:
Castlevania wrote:Sometimes my bots fire not a single bullet just because the enemy is on the edge of my range. The interruption of reloading make battle looks stupid, and its also boring to taking advantage on that. Please fix it.

Another option is to provide a condition about the percentage of reloading. But as I said, I really don't like this kind of micro-controlling. The exciting things are those such as counting the enemy and resources, which I see on the to-do list.


That's why people make dancers and anti-dancers. You must adapt. :twisted:

Agreed

The idea of it to make there a reason to not want to always switch targets and make more things to think about

Botique
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#4 » 26 Feb 2017, 10:48

This is one of the first problems to solve for new players. It might be frustrating but exactly this is by design. Come up with clever ways.
Some hints.
1. One retreating is not shooting so that bot is not "dangerous"
2. Remember there are fast bots and slow bots... use it to your advantage.
3. Dancing bots usually does not carry resources... so... get that yellow ball and let the dancer dance.

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GFX47
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#5 » 26 Feb 2017, 11:38

It's not reloading, it's aiming.

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Kanishka
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#6 » 26 Feb 2017, 11:42

GFX47 wrote:It's not reloading, it's aiming.


...

Yeah... I forgot... Aim... Fire... Reload... Fire... Reload... Fire... Do whatever you like.
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GFX47
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#7 » 26 Feb 2017, 18:49

What I mean is aiming should be reset when changing target.

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Kanishka
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#8 » 27 Feb 2017, 02:08

GFX47 wrote:What I mean is aiming should be reset when changing target.


Of course. Aim Bot1, Hit Bot2 doesn't make sense.
Kanishka wrote:Yeah... I forgot... Aim... Fire... Reload... Fire... Reload... Fire... Do whatever you like.


P.S. I meant "Random Action Node" by "do whatever you like". It wasn't directed to you. :P
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Captain Spock (Castlevania)
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#9 » 28 Feb 2017, 18:05

My point is that changing the target before firing the current bullet is obviously unnecessary and unwise except for snipers. So, requiring additional code to manage such kind of thing is not friendly to players. On the other hand, I think that an "intelligent" AI should be those who know when to gather or retreat and when to rushing for resources and how to optimize the team shape, instead of those who just knows to use some game specific tricks to overwhelm the opponents. The former kind of game is more enjoyable to watch.

Anyway, thank you for the tips, Botique.

pier4r
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#10 » 28 Feb 2017, 18:14

Wait are you suggesting that intelligent AI should not be measured on "intelligent target management"?

Well, I disagree here.
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Captain Spock (Castlevania)
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#11 » 28 Feb 2017, 20:45

pier4r wrote:Wait are you suggesting that intelligent AI should not be measured on "intelligent target management"?

Well, I disagree here.


No, I don't mean that. I mean that there is a problem in executing the target management. It lacks some sort of robustness, and we have to implement the robustness by our self. It just like we have to manage the memory by ourself because we are using C instead of Java.

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NullPointer
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#12 » 28 Feb 2017, 21:37

Being able to micro-manage who you're targeting or fleeing from is the heart of the game. Simplifying this would take a good part of the fun away.

It really doesn't take that many nodes to decide when to stay on the current target or not. There's a filter especifically for this. The complexity gap between having a GarbageCollector and managing the memory yourself is much bigger than this.

harthag
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#13 » 28 Feb 2017, 21:40

NullPointer wrote: There's a filter especifically for this.

I'm curious which filter you're referring to, specifically ...

pier4r
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#14 » 28 Feb 2017, 21:57

Castlevania wrote: It just like we have to manage the memory by ourself because we are using C instead of Java.


I still don't see the problem. If I decide to use C for managing memory on my own what is the matter? Having the target management removed would make the game another game. It is the most challenging and fun part. It is the part that make the most difference (together with pushing) between players.
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NullPointer
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#15 » 28 Feb 2017, 21:58

harthag wrote:
NullPointer wrote: There's a filter especifically for this.

I'm curious which filter you're referring to, specifically ...


SelfAttacking

Captain Spock (Castlevania)
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#16 » 28 Feb 2017, 23:30

It seems that every master like this design. "SelfAttacking" is good, but it cannot control the time. How about adding one more condition "IsAiming"? IsAiming becomes false when the bullet is fired.

There will be timer in the future? Can it be used on this?

harthag
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#17 » 28 Feb 2017, 23:37

Castlevania wrote: "IsAiming"? IsAiming becomes false when the bullet is fired.

That is true only for Machinegun and Assault bots. But "is aiming" would not become false for Sniper or Shotgun bots because the instant their bullet or spread is fired they return to the "is aiming" state. So they are aiming continuously, effectively, as long as they are "attacking".

Captain Spock (Castlevania)
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#18 » 28 Feb 2017, 23:38

It is not the only thing that frustrates me. I wanted to find out the common closest enemy. I made a lot of efforts and designed the method using tagging. However, after I implemented the bot program, I realized that it takes too long time to be practical (continue tagging for a long time).

harthag
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Re: Reload process shouldn't be interrupted when changing the target

Post#19 » 28 Feb 2017, 23:47

Castlevania wrote:I wanted to find out the common closest enemy.

That is certainly possible already, and there are avariety of popular methods among top players. Tagging is probably the most effective but, as you mentioned, least efficient methods. Some others include very complex target priorities, very specific target priorities, selecting a "leader" bot and have it do more tagging and thinking while other bots do more fighting, specializing AIs for bots or maps, and more.

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