Players that do not play in a day lose a few points

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Players that do not play in a day lose a few points

Post#1 » 16 Feb 2017, 11:01

So, I love how gfx implemented early an "avoiding all time high to hold the first positions", so who is not playing for 7 days gets hidden. Many games should do that.

Nevertheless PPS asked me via pm the following idea:
- if a player does not play in a day, and it is not hidden, should lose some little points. Say 10.

To me it sounds too cruel since players are busy too, so my amendments are the following:
- every time that a player do not play for 6 days (so one day before the inactivity), the player loses 5 points.
- OR the hidden period is shortened to 5 days.

What do you think?

side note: According to my self concerned with statistics, though, taking away points for inactivity would be a disaster because the score would not be consistent anymore. So my statistics part would be happier with the current system.

side note2: actually the current system is so better than other games, that have way more popularity, that I'm super content with the actual solution.
Last edited by pier4r on 18 Feb 2017, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
PPS
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 123

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#2 » 16 Feb 2017, 11:38

Grand Master League 1.TcT - 2154 Last Match: 2017-02-12 at my suggestion: 2017-02-16 TcT - 2125
2.T-800 - 2054
Very big disaster?!
10 points back for one fight, and standings will be more dynamic. Fines will force top players to confirm their level, not sit on our laurels is not giving active players occupy the top places.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#3 » 16 Feb 2017, 11:57

PPS wrote:Very big disaster?!


It is a disaster for statistics, otherwise no, not much. It should be not a big problem to take some points from inactive players.

Besides TcT will be hidden soon, like it was for "tralalo on PC" and "nullpointer".
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
NullPointer
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 539

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#4 » 16 Feb 2017, 12:28

Image

Hasta la vista, baby.

In all seriousness, it was a let down that TcT didn't try to catch up after taking a big hit from my two accounts, I was expecting a good fight.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#5 » 16 Feb 2017, 12:35

NullPointer wrote:
In all seriousness, it was a let down that TcT didn't try to catch up after taking a big hit from my two accounts, I was expecting a good fight.


Well if we have to be honest, you often stopped playing after a couple of losses (if you want I pull statistics, but I'm not sure that on this type of topics you can acknowledge anything) to then come back days after with a fix. But often what is fun is a quite immediate fight, not waiting days.

So, with TcT you can see how it feels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
NullPointer
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 539

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#6 » 16 Feb 2017, 12:57

I think you misinterpreted it, I'll use a sample of my last 100 matches as an example.

Last matches with my main account, I was winning and stopped playing:

Image

Was winning and stopped playing for the night:

Image

2 wins in 8 games and still deployed 8 more matches:

Image

You make it look like I have an evil plan to stay on the top, but you forget I play this game for even longer than you and it shouldn't be a surprise if I'm not playing all the time after so long.

User avatar
PPS
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 123

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#7 » 16 Feb 2017, 13:24

I took TcT just as an example, or anything personal ...
such examples abound
T800 It is not invincible 296933... and if played TcT too, could well lose...

User avatar
PPS
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 123

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#8 » 16 Feb 2017, 13:49

Image

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#9 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:12

NullPointer wrote:
You make it look like I have an evil plan to stay on the top, but you forget I play this game for even longer than you and it shouldn't be a surprise if I'm not playing all the time after so long.


it is way simpler. I am not surprised if you stop playing after a loss because you may not have the time/will to analyze it. It is not bad at all. I suppose many do the same. For example I stop playing to analyze the loss of maps I care (everything except mind game and cod), sometimes I do a quick fix and I want to see how it goes, and sometimes I defer the fix to another day.

Nevertheless sometimes your fixes or your possibility to play (you are busy I suppose, as everyone) come after many days, like TcT, so I don't get the critic to TcT because you did the same (and you likely will do the same).

On the "I play longer than you". 1st: and? How is that argument helpful for your point? /r/badarguments 2nd: I would consider activity based on games played or edits in a certain time frame, not on the distance between first and last match.
Last edited by pier4r on 16 Feb 2017, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#10 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:17

PPS wrote:I took TcT just as an example, or anything personal ...
such examples abound
T800 It is not invincible


But the problem here is that the score does not grant invincibility. It says that for the games played by the player, the player was able to win most of them, especially winning people with scores closer or higher that the player score.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
PPS
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 123

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#11 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:28

the percentage of victories... )) Kindergarten...

Image

Percentage of wins is good, but what's the point... ))
Last edited by PPS on 16 Feb 2017, 14:40, edited 1 time in total.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#12 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:30

I cannot follow.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
NullPointer
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 539

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#13 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:36

pier4r wrote:Nevertheless sometimes your fixes or your possibility to play (you are busy I suppose, as everyone) come after many days, like TcT, so I don't get the critic to TcT because you did the same (and you likely will do the same).


It's not a critic, you got it all wrong. I'm not saying anything about him taking too long to do anything. I sait it was a let down because he said himself that his name will disappear from the leaderboard half a week before that would actually happen, showing no intention of keep playing afterwards.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#14 » 16 Feb 2017, 14:48

NullPointer wrote:he said himself that his name will disappear from the leaderboard half a week before that would actually happen, showing no intention of keep playing afterwards.


That's true but I interpreted that like "now I want to play the game X" (this x-com genre game). I won't take his statement as absolute. For the rest, yes then I misunderstood your sentences.

Besides: there were a lot of good players that sooner or later would be real strong or were strong. Black phantom, tralalo, christian, johnbob, ntk, mehran mira, igigin, gaspode, chunkymonkey and many others. Still those can play again one day to join all the veterans again(because I strongly believe that jbdb, crashdown and so on just requires a bit more time to then show hard tactics).
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

harthag
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 197

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#15 » 16 Feb 2017, 18:59

I think I mentioned this suggestion on another thread somewhere, but I can't find it, so I'll bring it up here, since it's relevant.

Rather than simply removing points for inactivity, I would suggest letting active players have a go at the AIs of the inactive players. Set an activity limit (3 days? 5? 7? whatever). If a player is inactive beyond that time, then open the possibility that an active player can be matched up against the most recently successful AI setup for whichever map is selected. "recent" and "successful" are both keys to making this somewhat fair, both to the active and inactive players in this situation.

Since TcT has been mentioned so much already, I'll use TcT and myself, for my example:
If TcT is inactive past whatever limit is selected, then when I start a new multiplayer battle, I would have a chance to be matched up against another active player but also a chance to be matched up against the most recent successful bot placement and AI selection for the map.

I understand this would be more difficult to implement once Random Maps are a thing. But in the meantime, and if something similar can be done on random maps, then inactive players would have some way to defend their points, but are also at higher risk of having their stagnant AIs reverse engineered to be defeated. An evolving AI is harder to pin down and beat, so active players will have an advantage in that aspect. But the inactive player accounts would still be just as good as their most recent successful AIs, losing points only if their AIs are not good enough to keep them.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#16 » 16 Feb 2017, 19:34

harthag wrote:I think I mentioned this suggestion on another thread somewhere, but I can't find it, so I'll bring it up here, since it's relevant.


I read that thread and while I think that your idea is really nice, one has to be realistic. GFX so far is "solo" implementing what you say is not taking apparently so much time but can require it when bug appears.

Moreover is it valid only for the top1, top5, top? For how long? If a player reaches, say, top5, will always be "unvoluntary" active? Will be active until the player leaves the top5?

It is not so trivial to define cutoffs that makes sense.

But aside from the thresholds and so on, the most hard part is possible bugs since one increases the code entropy.

Therefore applying fixed penalties is way easier in terms of code maintenance. And for me it is even easier if one just tweaks the threshold for inactivity after, say, 5 days, because that threshold is already coded.

The reality is that, in my opinion, if one does not focus on the score, that is highly dynamic, but on the average score,tournaments,whatever is less dynamic and more fixed in time, the leaderboards is already quite neat.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

harthag
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 197

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#17 » 16 Feb 2017, 19:57

I don't think there should be any difference in how this applies to players based on rank, only on activity and inactivity.

As far as implementation, bugs, tweaks, dynamic stats vs. averages, etc., this was meant as nothing more than a concept to be considered, and modified as needed if it is going to be adopted in any form. If there are considerations that rule it out completely, so be it.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#18 » 16 Feb 2017, 21:05

For me it is like: really nice but may be complicated, before that something else has priority (ex: random maps, XP rewards, tutorials). So if inactivity penalties should be applied, I prefer a quick way of taking points.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
PPS
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 123

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#19 » 17 Feb 2017, 21:47

The proposal that someone would play with me, without my knowledge, I think insanity...

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3390

Re: Players that do not play in a day, lose little points

Post#20 » 17 Feb 2017, 22:12

Again: I did not understand
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Return to “Feature Requests”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests