Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3389

Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#1 » 17 Nov 2016, 17:51

I just discovered that the old forum is gone. Now half of the wiki is useless (this always happen when contributions, wherever they are, are deleted and were heavily referenced). For example the stats of the bots, the work from hdeffo. Would have been nicer to keep those contributions :cry:

From now on I will copy in the wiki the posts 1:1 , but this takes more effort.

Anyway in the old forum I requested the following change to solve (a) the problem with "unknown enemy formation that will be deployed" and (b) the problem of players missing some bot class after being demoted.

The proposal was: since alpha 5.x th map is chosen randomly by the server, while the formation can be chosen by the player, what about the formation of bot is chosen randomly by the server as well so both players have the same formation and one "unknown" less?

Anyway GFX was not sure because taking away this control from the players may have created frustration. I thought about this and now the new proposal:

So the server choose randomly the map and the side, but the player creating for the first time the game choose the formation. According to this It means the following procedure:

- The current player clicks play
- the server chooses the map
- If there is another challenge with the same map open already with a waiting player eligible to play (according to the 1h rule) the formation of that open challenge, chosen by the waiting player, will be forced for the current player.
- If there is no eligible challenge with the same map, the current player set the map and the formation that will be in turn forced on the challenger.

So sometimes players will be forced on a formation (if they do not spam challenges) or they will set formations (if they do spam challenges). With the 1h rule it is pretty easy to reach the 5 pending games limit.

So in this case both players will know the formation of the other in advance, just one of them will decide this formation but will know that the same formation will be used by the other player.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

HDeffo
Neural Network
Neural Network
Posts: 212

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#2 » 17 Nov 2016, 19:04

Not to worry since shotgun is now nerfed by sniper and machine gun im sure another shotgun change is coming and I'll make yet another 5.x math post

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3389

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#3 » 17 Nov 2016, 21:23

HDeffo wrote:Not to worry since shotgun is now nerfed by sniper and machine gun im sure another shotgun change is coming and I'll make yet another 5.x math post


Actually I find the shotgun quite ok. The only point is the assault class, that maybe can be used in some maps like meeting point but then that's it.

I mean:
shotgun rushing against sniper, sniper dead.
Shotgun rushing against mg, mg alive by a little.

Shotgun is the anti sniper, the problem is to know if there are snipers in the enemy formation before deploying. Because one may deploy snipers but then requires mg to counter the shotguns.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

User avatar
GFX47
Dev
Dev
Posts: 2914

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#4 » 21 Nov 2016, 17:39

pier4r wrote:From now on I will copy in the wiki the posts 1:1 , but this takes more effort.


Thanks, I think it's the best solution.
I restored the old forum last week, I think you saw that, but it's just temporary so you can so it.
I prefer to keep only the new one active to avoid misunderstanding.

pier4r wrote:So sometimes players will be forced on a formation


Which is even worst than not having the choice in my opinion :/
Anyway, as I said in another thread, I'm rethinking all that this week.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3389

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#5 » 21 Nov 2016, 19:15

GFX47 wrote:
Thanks, I think it's the best solution.
I restored the old forum last week, I think you saw that, but it's just temporary so you can so it.
I prefer to keep only the new one active to avoid misunderstanding.


I'll do, thanks for the clarification. If someone wants to help, everyone is welcomed!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Trigary
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 63

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#6 » 17 Dec 2016, 17:39

My idea is about taking a bit of a control from the players as well, I hope you don't mind if I share it here.

What if there was another type of match: unkown map. The players have to set up a new team for every bot count (not for every map; if two maps have the same amount of bots, the same bots are deployed) or with some percentage thing (75% assault bot with this AI, 25% assault bot with that AI -> 4 bot count map: 3 this and 1 that AI; 3 bot count map: 3 this AI). Some players probably don't like the idea of creating new AIs for specific maps, in this mode the player who can create the best all-around AI wins.

Of course, because of new gamemodes and game changing updates this might become a very bad idea, but I found it worth sharing nevertheless.

MGBlitz81
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 135

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#7 » 17 Dec 2016, 17:53

I like it!

The more options we have for multiplayer, the better!

User avatar
NullPointer
Autonomous Entity
Autonomous Entity
Posts: 539

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#8 » 17 Dec 2016, 18:02

A mode for the "best all-around AI" sounds great.

I'd say don't even show how many bots of each class you will have, nor resource count or base count, just let the player select 1 AI for each class and deploy all the random amount of bots of each team in their own side of the map, randomly but mirrored perfectly. But this would require the engine to be able to handle randomly generated maps, a not so easy task.

User avatar
GFX47
Dev
Dev
Posts: 2914

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#9 » 17 Dec 2016, 18:34

That's what I want to do with ranked matches ultimately: you manage a bot team that you can upgrade using credits you earn in ranked multiplayer and when you play ranked matches, you actually commit your team to whatever the matchmaking throws at you.

MGBlitz81
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 135

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#10 » 17 Dec 2016, 18:36

DO IT! I support you!

Oh, it's time I support you monetarily as well. $30!!

Keep the good stuff coming!

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3389

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#11 » 17 Dec 2016, 18:42

NullPointer wrote:A mode for the "best all-around AI" sounds great.

I'd say don't even show how many bots of each class you will have, nor resource count or base count, just let the player select 1 AI for each class and deploy all the random amount of bots of each team in their own side of the map, randomly but mirrored perfectly. But this would require the engine to be able to handle randomly generated maps, a not so easy task.


That would be cool.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Hamster
Script
Script
Posts: 28

Re: Random maps, random bots, well almost. Plus rant about deleting stuff.

Post#12 » 17 Dec 2016, 20:12

Its kinda interesting what people what from this game. Myself, I'm more interested in creating general Ai's rather the Map Specific Ai's. -- e.g building a general purpose Shotgun Ai is more interesting than trying to figure out optimal placement on of said unit on Map X.

So yeah, I think a 'all-play-all' swiss tourney system where you get random maps (maybe even random generated ones), random formations, team sizes, objectives, etc would be great. --- maybe we could even toy with asymmetrical maps (e.g 5 vs 4 or maybe one team starting right at the wall). So long as everyone plays an equal number of games as both sides things should be fair.

Return to “Feature Requests”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests