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Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 18:12
by DjSapsan
pier4r wrote:Yes doing an else with separated nodes is not always that easy.

Not just difficult but impossible

Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 18:45
by ElvenMonk
I have idea for mockup, but I need to find some time to prepare it.

@DjSapsan
It possible if you use separate tag to implement else condition. Not really convenient I agree.

Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 20:26
by DjSapsan
First real example of impossible situation - binary adding (described in first post)

Second example is here (i cant use temporary tag, because all tags are in use):
else.jpg
else.jpg (114.84 KiB) Viewed 576 times

You can see that sniper is tagged A and B, but i'm expecting he should be only A.

Third example is next:
else2.jpg
else2.jpg (171.33 KiB) Viewed 576 times

In this case bot should just ignore this part, but instead both nodes are true and i got wrong behaviour.

In small AI's this problem can be solved by temporary tag. But sometimes no more tags left, because they all used in counters and memory! Also sometimes problem can be solved without temporary tags, but instead AI need tons of additional conditions and many copies of the same part.
Summarize: some sort of logic can't be implemented in complicated system.

ElvenMonk wrote:@DjSapsan
It possible if you use separate tag to implement else condition. Not really convenient I agree.


I already said that. I already used temporary tag in my binary adder but its cost me x^2 price.

Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 23:13
by ElvenMonk
Temporary tag can be on any other object and can be reused for arbitrary number of conditions including nested conditions. So there is no real problem here just some amount of spare nodes.
You can see one of my twitch videos for the reference. Same way you can use some spare tag like on Ally base.

Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 26 Sep 2018, 23:54
by DjSapsan
ElvenMonk wrote:Temporary tag can be on any other object and can be reused for arbitrary number of conditions including nested conditions. So there is no real problem here just some amount of spare nodes.
You can see one of my twitch videos for the reference. Same way you can use some spare tag like on Ally base.

I know it. But i explained that:
1) In complex system all tags can be in use. No more tags can left for temporary tasks.
Real example - my previous system had 5 team tags on own bases for gamestate, 5/5 on ally/enemy bots for fast-conditions and roles (farmer, alone bot, focus, low HP and actually temp), and 1 for resource distributing. Also private nodes for counting and resources. My next system probably will use all nodes. I can imagine that future AI's will have real lack of tags.
2) For the different gamemodes its will be literally painful. How to manage bots in fights 10x10 or even more? Or gamemodes without resources and bases? You can't use temporary tag at all! (yea for myself it's possible, but this will not solve a problem). And the 'fun stuff' like a computer inside a AI or dancing-bots or whatever you can imagine.

Re: "Else" line in condition nodes

Posted: 29 Sep 2018, 06:20
by ElvenMonk
Ok, lets go back to a topic. Here a my mockups on a thing.

Editor, when both valid/not valid options selected:
Image

Node appearence when only single option selected:
Image

Node appearence when both options selected:
Image

Or even better for numeric conditions if you will:
Image

Note, that you can get additional value this way from placing connection points to the sides even if you will use only one of them.