Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

sollniss
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Posts: 176

Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#1 » 05 Mar 2018, 01:02

Right now the meta at the top of the ladder is basically "try to collect as many resources as possible with the shotgun and ignore anything else".

The shotgun can collect resources so fast that even if you kill one bot you can still lose. Basically if you attack an enemy with your shotgun (except for defence) you are going to lose. The drop hack makes the shotgun literally the best bot in the game by far. Not even to mention that the hack messes up the targeting of the bot.

I can't really imagine that it is that hard to fix, so can you fix this in the next release maybe?

mcompany
Autonomous Entity
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Posts: 865

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#2 » 05 Mar 2018, 05:37

To be honest, being able to up resources from a range with any bot way more safe than one would expect, so I personally would rather if all bots had their pick up range reduced

pier4r
Skynet
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Posts: 3315

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#3 » 05 Mar 2018, 12:31

sollniss wrote: Not even to mention that the hack messes up the targeting of the bot.


This is the most annoying part. The resource collection is lame, but I can live with it if I can counter it with a "non-lame" push. But I cannot. Aside from using tags, that is not yet an option for my plan, I cannot consistently say: "ok he is carrying a resource", because it is not. "ok is is going to that base" because it is not.

Cannot be easily detected and tracked.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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GFX47
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Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#4 » 08 Mar 2018, 00:30

It will be fixed in Alpha 13.

pier4r
Skynet
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Posts: 3315

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#5 » 21 May 2018, 19:56

Hmm I knew the sg bug was based on:
capture, drop, move to base, capture, drop move to base, capture, drop, move to base, etc..

In this way the period between picks is 3 picks and adding a cooldown it loses one tick.
ElvenMonky (not elvenmonk or elvenmonky2) anyway used a different procedure, that could have been even faster.
Catch, drop, move to base, move again, catch, drop, move to base, move again, etc..

So the period is now 4 ticks and the cooldown is not affecting it.
Somehow (I do not have a ruler inside) this seems to let the resource do 1.2/1.3 ticks moves when the shotgun is empty. Now 1 shotgun tick moves without the resource is 4 ticks moves with the resource, so doing >1 tick moves seems still advantageous. I guess because the sg pick range is still huge (so it can move two moves away). Could you check? #970044 and in general all the elvenmonky (without 2) latest matches.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

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GFX47
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Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#6 » 23 May 2018, 11:12

I tried to mimic the behaviour > https://imgur.com/a/3fsFeJM
Doesn't seem to be faster than legit catch/score.

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GFX47
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Posts: 2826

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#7 » 23 May 2018, 11:22

By the way, the minimum distance for catching and scoring is 0.5 meter.
Could be useful on the wiki?

ElvenMonk
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Posts: 217

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#8 » 23 May 2018, 13:55

Personally, I like how it it fixed now, it doesn't seem to be faster then normal move but still has other advantages crucial for shotgun, like having "hands" free, confusing opponents, etc.

Anyway, I'll try to provide what I think is most efficient way to move resource for shotgun at the moment, along with some calculations/measurements a bit later today.

Btw, ElvenMonky algorithm only has special case for "close to ally base" phase, which anyway shouldn't be faster then normal flow.

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LuBeNo
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Posts: 532

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#9 » 23 May 2018, 17:57

GFX47 wrote:By the way, the minimum distance for catching and scoring is 0.5 meter.
Could be useful on the wiki?


:D
Image
My algorithm of life: if(self.tired) sleep(); else if(self.hungry) eat(); else follow(Jesus);

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GFX47
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Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#10 » 23 May 2018, 18:17

Image

ElvenMonk
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Posts: 217

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#11 » 24 May 2018, 21:22

I made additional testing, and I don't see any way to overcome drop-catch cooldown, either with same or 2 different resources. Which makes bouncing equally efficient (inefficient) for all classes (except machinegun).
So now with bouncing you will always do 0.5m in 5 ticks. You will, ofcource, have 2 free ticks for shotgun, and 1 for assault/sniper, however it's not clear how you can usefully spend this time.

I can see few cases when bouncing is still usefull:
1) Your bot is in dangerous closure from enemies
2) You want to transport 2 or more resources together

Anyway I'm sharing simplified bouncing AI, which:
- works equially well for 3 bot classes
- allows to continue bouncing at close range from base
- can share same tag with score counting
Image

P.S: Intresting observation that GFXs AI also relies on the fact, that conditions are not getting reevaluated when tag values are changed in condition's subtree.

(Edit: fixed broken image links)

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GFX47
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Posts: 2826

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#12 » 26 May 2018, 15:12

ElvenMonk wrote:P.S: Intresting observation that GFXs AI also relies on the fact, that conditions are not getting reevaluated when tag values are changed in condition's subtree.


What do you mean?

ElvenMonk
Neural Network
Neural Network
Posts: 217

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#13 » 26 May 2018, 17:01

GFX47 wrote:
ElvenMonk wrote:P.S: Intresting observation that GFXs AI also relies on the fact, that conditions are not getting reevaluated when tag values are changed in condition's subtree.


What do you mean?


Under condition "Myself tagged 1" first "untag 1 myself" is executed and then "move to ally base". Initially I expected condition to be no more valid (even on same tick) after "untag" action.

Sure, existing behavior is consistent and much easier to implement.

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GFX47
Dev
Posts: 2826

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#14 » 26 May 2018, 20:57

Which AI are you talking about?

ElvenMonk
Neural Network
Neural Network
Posts: 217

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#15 » 27 May 2018, 10:40

GFX47 wrote:I tried to mimic the behaviour > https://imgur.com/a/3fsFeJM
Doesn't seem to be faster than legit catch/score.

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GFX47
Dev
Posts: 2826

Re: Can you put some priority on the shotgun resource bug?

Post#16 » 27 May 2018, 16:41

Oh OK.
Indeed, the full tree is not re-evaluated after the tag action.

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