(((Or))) condition

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

(((Or))) condition

Post#1 » 08 Nov 2017, 21:47

First off, the title. I tried searching for the title "or condition" to make sure my idea is original, and the term "or" was ignored because it was too common of a word. Hopefully the parenthesis allow it to be reached and not ignored. Anyway, can we add a condition that would scan for multiple things at once. For example: "if any enemy tagged 2 OR tagged 3 ORtagged 4 exists" opposed to "if any enemy tagged 2 AND tagged 3 AND tagged 4 exists". This could be something that could be toggled, like the invert button.

sollniss
Automaton
Automaton
Posts: 164

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#2 » 09 Nov 2017, 19:31

Just make 3 nodes.

User avatar
Athelinde
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 64
Contact:

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#3 » 09 Nov 2017, 19:34

+1

I have wished for the same thing multiple times. It would be tidier than making multiple nodes. And would cut down on nodes if we ever get node classes.

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3190

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#4 » 12 Nov 2017, 13:39

The problem for me it is more to avoid the NOT (A and B ) that requires more nodes and less readable branches.

A OR B OR C is easily defined with the opposite (only because, so far, we have limited quantities).

For example tagging:

'tag3 OR tag4 OR tag5' is equal to 'not tag 1 AND not tag2'

so in many cases you can still keep the nodes number compact with proper use of filters and inversion.

It is different when you need to have clear readability, in that case I find better to write more nodes to highlight the meaning of the branches.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#5 » 13 Nov 2017, 21:04

I have a question. How does a (hypothetically) good suggestion become a possible update in the roadmap? And how does the voting system work? Is the possible update added to the next version once a certain amount of votes are obtained, or is it dependant on how easy it is for GFX47 to code it properly?

pier4r
Skynet
Skynet
Posts: 3190

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#6 » 14 Nov 2017, 13:18

There is no voting, only suggesting.

And yes it depends on the GFX perspective, he has to work and decide if it is worth it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#7 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:01

Ok

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#8 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:18

Well, there are several parameters that make a request eligible.
I usually wait for other players to answer (or not) to see how popular is the request.
If it is, it has to fit my "vision" for the game and be doable in a reasonable amount of time without breaking too many existing things.

In this particular case, it has been mentioned several times on the forum that changing core features of the AI system like the node parameters is critical.
It doesn't just impact the edition process but also the representation of the nodes and it's something that is crucial for the understanding of the game.
Simplicity is one of the pillars of the game concept and I'd rather not work against it too much.

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#9 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:23

Ok. Well you do have the final say, but I dont see how it takes away from the simplicity of the game. And what do you mean by the "representation of the nodes"?

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#10 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:27

G.M. [rogueleader] wrote:Ok. Well you do have the final say, but I dont see how it takes away from the simplicity of the game. And what do you mean by the "representation of the nodes"?


I mean the visual of the nodes.
Today it's basically 1 icon for the action/condition + 1+N for the target and filters.
Adding more parameters means adding more sub-parts to the UI, making it look more complex and thus harder to read/understand.

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#11 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:36

Ok. Just an idea but what if there were shading in the node. It could be shaded the same throughout for "and", then half shaded for "or".

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#12 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:39

I don't understand what it would change to the problem.

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#13 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:47

I thought you meant that it would become too cluttered ( essentially) with symbols.

Sorry, that took me a second time reading it. You mean it would be hard to show which variable and "or" and which are "and", correct?

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#14 » 14 Nov 2017, 21:49

Both actually (too cluttered and hard to differentiate or/and).

User avatar
Athelinde
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 64
Contact:

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#15 » 18 Nov 2017, 13:48

Actually I already find it confusing there.. I have on several occasions made errors in my bots because I either assumed or/and in filters while the other was actually the case.. It seems inconsistent.. I have to force myself to read the text at the end to see if the "and" and "or" are correct.

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#16 » 19 Nov 2017, 23:19

What if we distinguished between and/or by using brackets/parenthesis around each related condition

G.M. [rogueleader]
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 72

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#17 » 19 Nov 2017, 23:20

Just a thought

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#18 » 20 Nov 2017, 10:03

Athelinde wrote:Actually I already find it confusing there.. I have on several occasions made errors in my bots because I either assumed or/and in filters while the other was actually the case.. It seems inconsistent.. I have to force myself to read the text at the end to see if the "and" and "or" are correct.


The rule to remember is filters that can't be cumulative are using or.
Like bot class filters: you can't be assault AND shotgun, so filters in this category use OR.
Tags on the contrary use AND because you can be tagger 1 AND tagged 2.

User avatar
Athelinde
Algorithm
Algorithm
Posts: 64
Contact:

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#19 » 20 Nov 2017, 17:08

I tried to make a filter and failed to count all the enemies that are not attacked by me, and not attacked by an ally, and not fleeing me, and not fleeing an ally. I see no way of doing that. At first I thought I could just go by not, not etc.. But the not fleeing me OR not fleeing an ally screwed it up, because that is pretty much meaning less.. I have made more mistakes like that in the past, and still do on occassion.. The "not" option combined with OR generally doesn't give something useful. And at the same time trying to test for closest tagged (any tag) is quite impossible.. AND/OR/XOR have very different uses especially if you also combine them with the NOT modifier.

User avatar
GFX47
Dev Team
Posts: 2603

Re: (((Or))) condition

Post#20 » 20 Nov 2017, 23:58

Athelinde wrote:not fleeing me and not fleeing an ally


For this kind of case, you have to check all the other possibilities in the target current action category.

Return to “Feature Requests”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests