Timer Delay for Action Nodes

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Revenge
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Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#1 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:07

I think that Gladiabots should have a Timer-Based function that allows an action to continue for a set amount of time, before selecting next action.

Some Basic Uses:
Flee for X seconds
Attack for X Seconds(Set to length of ammo clip)
Tag enemy every 1.5 Seconds

Benefits of this include:
*Providing new strategies, New ways to confront situations(Dancing/target switching),
*Bots would feel more responsive, New layer of depth to programming, keeps it simple for newcomers.

How would you implement this, and would you use this function if it existed? Thoughts?
Last edited by Revenge on 12 Aug 2018, 05:25, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#2 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:13

What happenend during the X second? your robot only follow the action?

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#3 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:14

TheKidPunisher wrote:What happenend during the X second? your robot only follow the action?

Correct.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#4 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:19

So what happened to the rest of you AI? how the 0.25s time of recalculation will works? he will not?

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#5 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:27

You can place the timer in the middle of your attack AI, allowing preferred AIs to interrupt it but not the ones behind it. Great idea!

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#6 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:30

MGBlitz81 wrote: allowing preferred AIs to interrupt it but not the ones behind it. Great idea!


It is not what exactly the game did?

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#7 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:39

TheKidPunisher wrote:
MGBlitz81 wrote: allowing preferred AIs to interrupt it but not the ones behind it. Great idea!


It is not what exactly the game did?


No, currently there is no way to "lock" an action without creating an infinite loop.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#8 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:42

I +1 this, although I do worry of how well this could be integrated into the tick system

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#9 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:52

Revenge wrote:No, currently there is no way to "lock" an action without creating an infinite loop.


Euh, as long as no one action is available before the action ongoing, this action will as same as lock.


Revenge wrote:Providing new strategies

What new strategies will be added?


Revenge wrote:Bots would feel more responsive


We actually got a refresh of the AI at 0.25s, what will make them more responsive will be to low this value. Actually you want them to be less responsive as they continue to follow order until time expire

Revenge wrote:keeps it simple for newcomers

More features, more value to put in programer and test. not sure it will be simple for newcomers

But maybe i dont understand what you request, so if you can do an example maybe i will understand

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#10 » 30 Sep 2017, 20:20

TheKidPunisher wrote:But maybe i dont understand what you request, so if you can do an example maybe i will understand


Sure! Say for example you have a condition that says, "If any enemy is short/medium range".
You then have a node underneath it saying "Attack closest enemy ai".

In traditional Gladiabots, you could have the enemy bot "dance" back and forth between medium and long range, forcing the AI to do nothing. This is because the condition continuously gets reapplied.

With the timer function, you could "lock" your Ai to attack for 1.0 second. Causing it to ignore all conditions above it, and any conditions to the right of it on the AI tree.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#11 » 30 Sep 2017, 20:34

Thanks for your example, i see what you request now.

But still, if you put the action: attack the ennemy i'm attacking just before the condition to permit to continue to attack him even if is is not anymore at short/medium range (which permit to not "dance" anddo nothing)

Also, again for reobots more responsive, this counter-argue for your request. you will made them less reactive (their reactivities are 0.25ms)

Sry for all these questions but i try to understand your problem (if you request that it cause of target switch during attack? or dancing problems?), it seems that i dont no have them

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#12 » 30 Sep 2017, 20:48

TheKidPunisher wrote:Thanks for your example, i see what you request now.

But still, if you put the action: attack the ennemy i'm attacking just before the condition to permit to continue to attack him even if is is not anymore at short/medium range (which permit to not "dance" anddo nothing)

You would not put the action Before the condition, you would put it Underneath the condition. That way the condition would have to at least be met before selecting the action again.

TheKidPunisher wrote:Also, again for reobots more responsive, this counter-argue for your request. you will made them less reactive (their reactivities are 0.25ms)

I meant more responsive as in options it would have to use. Yes using a timer would technically make an AI more sluggish to respond, but it could prove useful in a lot of cases(such as attacking/tagging targets).


TheKidPunisher wrote:Sry for all these questions but i try to understand your problem (if you request that it cause of target switch during attack? or dancing problems?), it seems that i dont no have them

Yes, it would solve dancing/switch attacks, but it would also allow focus fire of a target for a full clip of ammo, as well as enable new solutions to retreating and engaging. (Example- Condition: When enemy ai attacks, Action: retreat for 1 second etc.)

I hope this helps! ^.^

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#13 » 30 Sep 2017, 20:59

Revenge wrote:
TheKidPunisher wrote:Thanks for your example, i see what you request now.

But still, if you put the action: attack the ennemy i'm attacking just before the condition to permit to continue to attack him even if is is not anymore at short/medium range (which permit to not "dance" anddo nothing)

You would not put the action Before the condition, you would put it Underneath the condition. That way the condition would have to at least be met before selecting the action again.


Caution: i talk here about another attack node (not the same which is under the condition, it would be useless)

I talk about a attack node with the "i am attacking" filter



For the rest of your post, i am sorry but i just can agree with that:

Revenge wrote:it would also allow focus fire of a target for a full clip of ammo


and it is not enough for me to add your request, but it is only my point of view. For some people it maybe look usefull.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#14 » 01 Oct 2017, 05:54

I am against this. IMO this is just whining because the creator of the op can't counter dancing. I like how the AI works now, timer function is possible to those who use their brains, no need for more "I can't implement what I want, make things easier" requests.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#15 » 01 Oct 2017, 06:04

Kanishka wrote:I am against this. IMO this is just whining because the creator of the op can't counter dancing. I like how the AI works now, timer function is possible to those who use their brains, no need for more "I can't implement what I want, make things easier" requests.


Timer function is a legitimate requested feature. It was being suggested routinely on the Google play page way before I made the request here. I got off-topic with bot dancing, but the point is that it could be used to lock attack/retreat functions, and add more variety to Ai design.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#16 » 01 Oct 2017, 06:37

Meh, most of the time bot dancing isn't even worth countering

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#17 » 01 Oct 2017, 13:50

Revenge wrote:It was being suggested routinely on the Google play page


Seriously? Those guys are the main creators of the whining requests. They don't think, they want to be fed.
Fixes break an AI more than bugs do. :ugeek:

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#18 » 01 Oct 2017, 14:44

Revenge wrote:, but the point is that it could be used to lock attack/retreat functions


Again: it is actually possible (just try what i say some previous post)

Kanishka wrote: timer function is possible to those who use their brains, no need for more "I can't implement what I want, make things easier" requests.


GFX want to introduce non-programmers people to code with this game. He has to make thing easier if he want to bring this people. (I agree that with the basic function, you can create a lot of complex function by doing some brain storming)
But seriously, i do not see how make a bot «attacking during exactly X time» in a worth way (i will have to do some test)

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#19 » 01 Oct 2017, 20:58

Clarity.

What if you have 2 of these nodes in your AI or 10 or 50. At some point you won't know anymore why your AI is doing something because it is still running some nodes that are never reached.

This is like using GoTos in normal progamming and a terrible idea.

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Re: Timer Delay for Action Nodes

Post#20 » 02 Oct 2017, 04:51

It would only run one node at a time. So you would always know which node was running. Plus, the path is always specified in color, so it wouldn't be hard to work out.

(In fact, I'd argue it would be much easier to figure out than a normal node, as it would "freeze" on that node for a set amount of time. Compared to regular nodes which switch constantly)

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