Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Mephisto
Hello World
Hello World
Posts: 1

Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#1 » 30 Sep 2017, 18:39

Pretty self explanatory and since we just got the counting function which lets my robots know what's at stake, detecting the distance to the wall is a good way for a newcomer to tell their robots to see if they're being repeatedly pushed back into the limits(i.e. Split Team)

TheKidPunisher
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Posts: 565

Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#2 » 30 Sep 2017, 18:48

if mcompany had a nickel each time he said he will have a nickel for each time request are repeated...

I think it is already in some to-do list on trello

mcompany
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#3 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:40

TheKidPunisher wrote:if mcompany had a nickel each time he said he will have a nickel for each time request are repeated...

I think it is already in some to-do list on trello

Stop it, that's my thing
mcompany wrote:If I had a nickel for how many suggestions has been said before a million times...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=242
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=521
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=903

TheKidPunisher
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#4 » 30 Sep 2017, 19:54

mcompany wrote:Stop it, that's my thing
mcompany wrote:If I had a nickel for how many suggestions has been said before a million times...



It was a private joke, dont worry i will let you the next "false new suggestions"

pier4r
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#5 » 30 Sep 2017, 21:25

The point is that mcompany at least brings old links.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;


Melkor
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#7 » 02 Oct 2017, 18:19

I don't think this would improve the game. Right now you have to choose how aggressive you want to be, and then if you aren't aggressive enough you get pushed into the wall, but if you're too aggressive you just get killed. With this, you don't have to worry about getting pushed, since you can just stop retreating once the wall is in close range.

Also, I'd have to make more changes to each of my retreat AI, and I have like five different retreat AIs.

mcompany
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#8 » 02 Oct 2017, 19:32

Melkor wrote:I don't think this would improve the game. Right now you have to choose how aggressive you want to be, and then if you aren't aggressive enough you get pushed into the wall, but if you're too aggressive you just get killed. With this, you don't have to worry about getting pushed, since you can just stop retreating once the wall is in close range.

Also, I'd have to make more changes to each of my retreat AI, and I have like five different retreat AIs.

My simple thoughts: meh

More explained thoughts: if you stop retreating near the border, it by no means would guarantee that it would help your survival. Not to mention that not everyone needs their AIs to see the border. However, the border is an important factor of how your bots can die, and with a game based around making the smartest AI, I'm sure this is a worthwhile request. So meh

MrChris
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Posts: 170

Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#9 » 03 Oct 2017, 14:15

This would add a layer of complexity to the game which wouldn't be fun to deal with.

If you don't want to be pushed into the wall then figure out how to be more aggressive/pushy. This is what the game is all about.
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pier4r
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Posts: 3390

Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#10 » 03 Oct 2017, 14:35

Melkor wrote: since you can just stop retreating once the wall is in close range.

On some maps you can do it already. "if closest bases is out of range, stop retreating". If your code does not act accordingly, if you were pushed then you get destroyed while you hold the ground.

Months ago I was thinking it was a neat feature to have but I don't think would save people from being pushed, would change pushed to destroyed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

sollniss
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#11 » 03 Oct 2017, 17:54

Sure, eventually the outcome doesn't change. BUT this game is still time based, living a second longer can make the difference between a draw and a loss. I think all you guys are forgetting that.

mcompany
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#12 » 03 Oct 2017, 18:49

I think this game is about making the smartest AI, not the pushiest. If the right way to survive is by avoiding the walls, then I see no problem in making a way to avoid the wall. As said before, it really wouldn't change the outcome by much (some matches I actually expect it to have the enemy die off sooner, not later). Currently, there is no much complexity to the game besides how well you can push without dying (one of the reasons why I think pushbot should be added back into the game). Having another layer of simply wall avoidance) on top wouldn't hurt all to much (if at all, especially since AIs doing ridiculous movements to survive is probably already a thing that just rare)
pier4r wrote:
Melkor wrote: since you can just stop retreating once the wall is in close range.

On some maps you can do it already. "if closest bases is out of range, stop retreating". If your code does not act accordingly, if you were pushed then you get destroyed while you hold the ground.

I tried this (for a completely different reason back during 4.2 (and observed my AI doing it the few tines I actually updated the apk for the account). It barely had any effect, if not made a potential for the AI to be worse and had interesting side effects. Simply put, it isn't entirely viable

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LuBeNo
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#13 » 03 Oct 2017, 19:16

I think detecting red is not needed. Would make it more complicated without much gain. Dying in the corner instead of at the border.
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Jeffrey Harpen
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#14 » 03 Oct 2017, 19:29

It can be useful. I can imagine bots flanking the enemies by moving along the border while enemies stay near the center of the map.

Melkor
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#15 » 06 Oct 2017, 18:25

Jeffrey Harpen wrote:It can be useful. I can imagine bots flanking the enemies by moving along the border while enemies stay near the center of the map.


I've seen some people do this already just by using resources instead of the border. Its defintely possible on maps like seven wonders, but from what I've seen its not very effective; you're wasting a bot while he walks around, only to have him end up alone and fired upon from half the enemy team.

Or maybe my AI just happens to be good at defending against that, and most of the time its still effective.

pier4r
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#16 » 08 Oct 2017, 12:23

sollniss wrote:Sure, eventually the outcome doesn't change. BUT this game is still time based, living a second longer can make the difference between a draw and a loss. I think all you guys are forgetting that.


true.

Moreover now that is there I completely forgot that it is not only about dying, but also pushing. It allows a lot more subtle behavioral changes in the tactic (that I am lazy to code, though).

For example: if there is a numerical advantage and the border is close, extra push.

Plus also in retreating I discovered that there is an advantage, in trading space for damage. It happened already multiple time that my enemy pushes me away but it is too damaged and cannot destroy me when I am near to the wall (on the contrary, the enemy risks to be destroyed).

So it take back that is not needed, and I say actually detecting the border allows way more behaviors to be implemented.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Gladiabots/wiki/players/pier4r_nvidia_shield_k1 -> Gladiabots CHAT, stats, insights and more ;

Jeffrey Harpen
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#17 » 08 Oct 2017, 19:13

Melkor wrote:
Jeffrey Harpen wrote:It can be useful. I can imagine bots flanking the enemies by moving along the border while enemies stay near the center of the map.


I've seen some people do this already just by using resources instead of the border. Its defintely possible on maps like seven wonders, but from what I've seen its not very effective; you're wasting a bot while he walks around, only to have him end up alone and fired upon from half the enemy team.

Yes, this is how my shotgun distracts all enemies while the rest of my team capture the resources, killing some of them eventually when they are not careful. :) Except I use bases to navigate, not resources.

Melkor
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#18 » 10 Oct 2017, 00:44

Jeffrey Harpen wrote:Yes, this is how my shotgun distracts all enemies while the rest of my team capture the resources, killing some of them eventually when they are not careful. :) Except I use bases to navigate, not resources.


Wait, you use the normal bots to collect the resources while your shotgun fights? That's the exact opposite of what I do. Wouldn't that lead to your resource carriers taking a lot of damage, since they'll be prioritized by the enemy team and unable to quickly escape?

Jeffrey Harpen
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Re: Add Detect Distance to Red Zone

Post#19 » 12 Oct 2017, 23:29

Actually it works quite fine (or worked - haven't played much after major changes). As I could see many people are more afraid of shotgun's attacks than other bot running away with resource. And I tell you why: because they are damn right! The shotgun can finish many of bots quite easily if you let it come close.
And another thing: my assault bots are quite careful, so when they feel weak they just drop the resource and run away. They come back when the shield is high and slowly keep pushing the resource to the base. Sometimes it goes quite quickly, because when one assault is running away, another captures the resource, and so on...

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